Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 13:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
To: <199712011748.LAA29970@mail.valuenet.net> From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject: Re: FS: Mopeds (2)
For those of you in New Jersey:
call Steve's Bicycle and Moped World and ask for used mopeds
making sure to specify your budget (mopedmoped@aol.com)
call or stop by Mickey's mopeds and see if he can help you
(tomostomas@aol.com)
if you purchase a used moped from either of these sources, you will pay
more than if you got it from the guy down the street, but you will be
assured of a solid/safe/ and 100% working machine.
Or stop by The Moped Warehouse in Plainville CT and he may sell you a
non-working moped that can be fixed for under $200. Last I checked he had
a Jawa in pretty good condition and a Motobecane-both for under $200 (I
don't mean 199.95, I really mean UNDER $200-like $150 or $125).
Michael Liu
On Mon, 1 Dec 1997 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> *************************************************
> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 21:14:06 -0500 (EST)
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: Dashaun84@aol.com
> Subject: Re: FS: Mopeds (2)
> > > Hi I live in Hillside NJ and Im really interrested in your Honda moped for
> sale.But all I can spend is $200 ,and I wont even have that until
> Christmas.PLEASE REPLY
> > >
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 13:39:16 -0400 (EDT)
To: Andrei Zaitsev
Subject: FOR sale
FOR SALE - used transmission for PUCH Maxi-Luxe (1977) - one speed $80
I replaced the tranny with a two-speed. The one speed actually goes
FASTER than the two speed at the same gearing-the one speed just takes
too long to get there. Includes entire engine except piston/cylinder/and
head. Works great!!!!
Michael Liu
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 11:40:36 -0800
To: artgoulet@bigfoot.com
From: agoulet@flash.net
Subject: Re: GOT ARRESTED WHILE DRIVING A MOPED
Nasty break -- but I think your best move now is to go to the Clerk of
Court where you are to appear (or your local library) and ask to see two
things in the Florida code (they should have a copy at the court and the
library):
1) the law you are charged with breaking (the citation will be on the
ticket); and
2) any motor vehicle laws that deal specifically with mopeds.
If you find that you are right and the officer is wrong, your boyfriend
should go to the court hearing with copies of those laws, and ask to get
all your expenses back. If your research finds that he was indeed in
violation of the law, then still go to court, but try to make a case to
the effect that you were following the best information made available
to you at the time (and be prepared to prove it with documents,
witnesses, etc.).
With that said, I am not aware of any state (but there may be some) in
which anyone can drive a moped without a driver's license of some kind.
Also, as you mentioned, you don't ordinarily need a license to register
a vehicle; registration is related to one's *ownership* of the vehicle,
and not permission to *drive* it.
I used to live in Florida where you live, but too long ago to remember
the moped laws there. I also used to live in Maryland, where
registration of mopeds was not done, but a motorcycle driver's license
was required. Now, I'm in California, where one must have registration,
insurance, and a motorcycle (M-1 or M-2) driver's license.
Now, on to other issues:
It's extremely unusual to need a bail bondsman and $1,000 collateral for
an ordinary moving violation. Was there anything else going on here?
You say that your boyfriend got the moped because he "couldn't get a
license." Why is that, and why was he pulled over in the first place?
Is he just underage for an automobile driver's license, or does he have
some previous violations that prevent his getting a driver's license?
If he has a previouly-revoked license, a previous criminal record, or
anything like that, then it puts things in a much different light, and
he shouldn't be driving anything sexier than a bicycle (and maybe not
even that).
If either of the above two (or any other) complicating circumstances
applies, your boyfriend's already-high expenses aren't over -- he needs
to hire an attorney, too.
As a final tip, let me suggest you do as I did to protect myself when I
drive a moped: Make a copy of the motor vehicle laws that apply to
mopeds, and put it in the moped along with the vehicle registration (if
any). Mopeds are relatively unusual, and because of that, many police
officers may assume it's "just another motorcycle." By showing a copy
of the law on the spot, you can show the police just what the law really
is, and possibly avoid a ticket.
Last comment: The officer's comment about your boyfriend's "not
pedaling the moped" is absurd in any state, and suggests that the
officer may have been ignorant of the law and predisposed against your
boyfriend. That may be evidence in your favor.
Good luck!
Arthur Goulet
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > Today, my boyfriend Tim got arrested in Lee County, Fl. while driving
> his Tomos Targa Lx..The officer told him he needed a drivers
> license..helmet, etc....Not true...The reason Tim bought a moped in the
> first place is that he cannot get a license...I am positive the law has
> not changed...What does anybody suggest...it's a peddled bike and under
> 49cc's.....It cost us $100. for a bail bondsman and $1,000 in collaratal
> and they impounded the moped..costing $75. plus $10. per day....
> > The officer was certain and so was I...but i have no proof...The dealer
> where we purchased the moped was no help at all.....any suggestions,
> cause the same thing could happen the next time he drives the moped in
> Lee County, Fl...We put a plate on the back, registered it legally, so
> should we not have registered it....Ya didn't need a license to register
> it.....The cop said that when Tim was stopped he was not peddling it,
> and the bike was motorized so he considered it a vehicle that ya need a
> license to drive....How can we straighten this out before his court date
> and for future moped drivers in Fl...... Thanks Alene & Tim
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:53:17 -0500 (EST)
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: SNOOP51106@aol.com
Subject: Re: Mickey's Mopeds
(216) 741-1636 CLEVELAND OH
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 16:08:07 -0400 (EDT)
To: <199712011954.NAA32690@mail.valuenet.net> From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject: Re: Mickey's Mopeds
Mickey's Mopeds is not located in Cleveland, OH
It is in New Jersey. E-mail is tomostomos@aol.com
I do not work for Mickey's, I just shop there.
Michael Liu
On Mon, 1 Dec 1997 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> *************************************************
> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:53:17 -0500 (EST)
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: SNOOP51106@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Mickey's Mopeds
> > > (216) 741-1636 CLEVELAND OH
> > >
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:17:52 -0600
To: "Mailing List"
Subject: Moped repair in Oregon
------ reply to Doug Tombleson
Looking for a repair facility somewhere close to the Portland Oregon area.
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:55:45 +0100
To:
Subject: Re: help me,.. need PUCH help
----------
| Van: daugava@nothnbut.net
| Aan: Moped Mailing List
| Datum: maandag 1 december 1997 14:45
|
| *************************************************
| Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 19:01:37 -0500
| To: daugava@nothnbut.net
| From: a.ghosh@utoronto.ca
| Subject: help me,.. need PUCH help
|
|
| i go this moped. i have no clue what model it is.
| it says nothing. it's a PUCH bombardier. that's all it says.
| it was made in 1975 in Australia. I looked at a couple of pics
| on the net, and i came accross one which is somewhat similar,
| but not. the file was called mop-puch. i think its in the gallery.
| not sure. well take a look at it. if you have any idea what kind
| of PUCH it is, can ya tell me.
|
| Thanx.. Filter from Toronto
|
| have a look at :
http://home.concepts.nl/~staal
and tell me if it looks familiar.... (are you sure about australia, isn't
it austria (ostenreich) in europe...)
Peter.
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 15:34:16 PST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: britton14@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: GOT ARRESTED WHILE DRIVING A MOPED
call the state police in florida. ask them if you need a license to
drive a moped. they should say no, cause ya don't need one. i don't
know-just a suggestion there is another reply to this that is much more
detailed.
>From daugava@nothnbut.net Mon Dec 1 09:51:42 1997
>Received: from mail.valuenet.net ([207.230.63.38])
> by mail.valuenet.net (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP
> id LAA30108; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:50:15 -0600
>From: daugava@nothnbut.net
>Message-Id: <199712011750.LAA30108@mail.valuenet.net> >Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 8:45:32 -0500
>Subject: Re: GOT ARRESTED WHILE DRIVING A MOPED
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>To: "Moped Mailing List"
>Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 19:55:05 -0500
>To: Kowiachobee.WORLDNET.ATT.NET@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
>From: Kowiachobee.WORLDNET.ATT.NET@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
>Subject: Re: GOT ARRESTED WHILE DRIVING A MOPED
> > >daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
>> >> *************************************************
>> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 23:30:31 -0000
>> To:
>> Subject:
>Today, my boyfriend Tim got arrested in Lee County, Fl. while driving
>his Tomos Targa Lx..The officer told him he needed a drivers
>license..helmet, etc....Not true...The reason Tim bought a moped in the
>first place is that he cannot get a license...I am positive the law has
>not changed...What does anybody suggest...it's a peddled bike and under
>49cc's.....It cost us $100. for a bail bondsman and $1,000 in
collaratal
>and they impounded the moped..costing $75. plus $10. per day....
> >The officer was certain and so was I...but i have no proof...The dealer
>where we purchased the moped was no help at all.....any suggestions,
>cause the same thing could happen the next time he drives the moped in
>Lee County, Fl...We put a plate on the back, registered it legally, so
>should we not have registered it....Ya didn't need a license to
register
>it.....The cop said that when Tim was stopped he was not peddling it,
>and the bike was motorized so he considered it a vehicle that ya need
a
>license to drive....How can we straighten this out before his court
date
>and for future moped drivers in Fl...... Thanks Alene & Tim
> > >
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 15:37:34 PST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: britton14@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: FOR sale
I'd love to buy the PUCH-but from your past postings I get the idea that
you live in New York-I live in Virginia and cannot drive that far. If I
am wrong about your location please e-mail me at:
britton14@hotmail.com
Thanks.
>From daugava@nothnbut.net Mon Dec 1 11:50:31 1997
>Received: from mail.valuenet.net (ppp2.valuenet.net [207.230.63.3])
> by mail.valuenet.net (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP
> id NAA32513; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:48:57 -0600
>From: daugava@nothnbut.net
>Message-Id: <199712011948.NAA32513@mail.valuenet.net> >Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 11:40:36 -0800
>Subject: FOR sale
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>To: "Moped Mailing List"
>Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 13:39:16 -0400 (EDT)
>To: Andrei Zaitsev
>Subject: FOR sale
> > >FOR SALE - used transmission for PUCH Maxi-Luxe (1977) - one speed $80
> >I replaced the tranny with a two-speed. The one speed actually goes
>FASTER than the two speed at the same gearing-the one speed just
takes
>too long to get there. Includes entire engine except
piston/cylinder/and
>head. Works great!!!!
> >Michael Liu
> > >
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 19:16:31 -0500
To: moped mailing list
Subject: Moped Magazine December issue is out
Lots of new stuff and lots of gift ideas. Enjoy.
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 20:46:31 -0500
To: chrislo@cfw.com
From: chrislo@cfw.com
Subject: Re: GOT ARRESTED WHILE DRIVING A MOPED
> Today, my boyfriend Tim got arrested in Lee County, Fl. while driving
> his Tomos Targa Lx..
busted! awright! welcome to the club!
getting stopped for riding a moped is almost as degrading as getting a
ticket for riding a bike in germany without the manatory bell on the
handlebar. it happens. pick on the littlest guys. they could grow up to
be hells angels.
the cop seems to have pulled a heavyweight from yon 'ped? or was it just
hype, overzealousness? i'm curious.
whatever. like the other posts have already said, it could be very easy
or very hard to straighten out. others should be warned to be prepared,
have written documents ready. give em paper before they give you any.
government officials love paper. that proves their usefulness, justifies
their existence.
but what this about needing a motorcycle license to ride a moped in some
states? helmets okay, but whoa! va has many faults but being commie
isn't one of them.
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:58:00 -0500 (EST)
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: ArRoW15102@aol.com
Subject: Re: GOT ARRESTED WHILE DRIVING A MOPED
Alene & Tim,
You should check your department of motor vehicles in your state, and
get any information you can on riding mopeds legally, and then go to the
police station and show them the evidence.
Hope I helped you,
Adam
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 22:08:43 -0500
To: Kowiachobee.WORLDNET.ATT.NET@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
From: Kowiachobee.WORLDNET.ATT.NET@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: GOT ARRESTED WHILE DRIVING A MOPED
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 15:34:16 PST
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: britton14@hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: GOT ARRESTED WHILE DRIVING A MOPED
> > call the state police in florida. ask them if you need a license to
> drive a moped. they should say no, cause ya don't need one. i don't
> know-just a suggestion there is another reply to this that is much more
> detailed.
> > >From daugava@nothnbut.net Mon Dec 1 09:51:42 1997
> >Received: from mail.valuenet.net ([207.230.63.38])
> > by mail.valuenet.net (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP
> > id LAA30108; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:50:15 -0600
> >From: daugava@nothnbut.net
> >Message-Id: <199712011750.LAA30108@mail.valuenet.net> > >Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 8:45:32 -0500
> >Subject: Re: GOT ARRESTED WHILE DRIVING A MOPED
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >To: "Moped Mailing List"
> >Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 19:55:05 -0500
> >To: Kowiachobee.WORLDNET.ATT.NET@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
> >From: Kowiachobee.WORLDNET.ATT.NET@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
> >Subject: Re: GOT ARRESTED WHILE DRIVING A MOPED
> > > > > >daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> >> > >> *************************************************
> >> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 23:30:31 -0000
> >> To:
> >> Subject:
> >Today, my boyfriend Tim got arrested in Lee County, Fl. while driving
> >his Tomos Targa Lx..The officer told him he needed a drivers
> >license..helmet, etc....Not true...The reason Tim bought a moped in the
> >first place is that he cannot get a license...I am positive the law has
> >not changed...What does anybody suggest...it's a peddled bike and under
> >49cc's.....It cost us $100. for a bail bondsman and $1,000 in
> collaratal
> >and they impounded the moped..costing $75. plus $10. per day....
> > > >The officer was certain and so was I...but i have no proof...The dealer
> >where we purchased the moped was no help at all.....any suggestions,
> >cause the same thing could happen the next time he drives the moped in
> >Lee County, Fl...We put a plate on the back, registered it legally, so
> >should we not have registered it....Ya didn't need a license to
> register
> >it.....The cop said that when Tim was stopped he was not peddling it,
> >and the bike was motorized so he considered it a vehicle that ya need
> a
> >license to drive....How can we straighten this out before his court
> date
> >and for future moped drivers in Fl...... Thanks Alene & Tim
> > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Thanks for all of your imput and support...Tim is gona see an attorney
tomorrow here in Fl...& we are hoping it will get thrown out of
court..His court date is Christmas eve..of all times..We'll keep ya
updated..Going to supply as much positive factual imput as humanily
possible & hope the judge isn't one of those folks who run moped drivers
of the road... Tim & Alene & the (sad Tomas Targa lx hiding in the
storage shed)
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 23:05:08 -0800
To: agner@erols.com
From: agner@erols.com
Subject: Re: GOT ARRESTED WHILE DRIVING A MOPED
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 19:55:05 -0500
> To: Kowiachobee.WORLDNET.ATT.NET@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
> From: Kowiachobee.WORLDNET.ATT.NET@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
> Subject: Re: GOT ARRESTED WHILE DRIVING A MOPED
> > daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > > > *************************************************
> > Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 23:30:31 -0000
> > To:
> > Subject:
> Today, my boyfriend Tim got arrested in Lee County, Fl. while driving
> his Tomos Targa Lx..The officer told him he needed a drivers
> license..helmet, etc....Not true...The reason Tim bought a moped in the
> first place is that he cannot get a license...I am positive the law has
> not changed...What does anybody suggest...it's a peddled bike and under
> 49cc's.....It cost us $100. for a bail bondsman and $1,000 in collaratal
> and they impounded the moped..costing $75. plus $10. per day....
> > The officer was certain and so was I...but i have no proof...The dealer
> where we purchased the moped was no help at all.....any suggestions,
> cause the same thing could happen the next time he drives the moped in
> Lee County, Fl...We put a plate on the back, registered it legally, so
> should we not have registered it....Ya didn't need a license to register
> it.....The cop said that when Tim was stopped he was not peddling it,
> and the bike was motorized so he considered it a vehicle that ya need a
> license to drive....How can we straighten this out before his court date
> and for future moped drivers in Fl...... Thanks Alene & Tim
Go to the library. Ask the reference librarian to show you how to find
license requirements for mopeds in the state statutes. Read the law, if
one exists. It should tell you whether a license is required. Also, go
to motor vehicle and ask for any booklets on mopeds and licensing
requirements for drivers. Good luck. John
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 23:03:36 -0600 (CST)
To: cyclepro@evansville.net
From: cyclepro@evansville.net
Subject: Re: GOT ARRESTED WHILE DRIVING A MOPED
I am not informed on Flordia law but I've got a sugestion or two about
where to start.
The state police usually have a drivers handbook that they hand out to
people wanting to study for a drivers test. The book should give details on
when a licenses is required under state law.
You could also go to the public library and check the state law.
Also a repitable dealer of mopeds and scooters should know the law and are
usually glad to help.
Good Luck...Greg
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:35:06 -0500
To:
Subject: got arrested
>Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 19:55:05 -0500
>To: Kowiachobee.WORLDNET.ATT.NET@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
>From: Kowiachobee.WORLDNET.ATT.NET@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
>Subject: Re: GOT ARRESTED WHILE DRIVING A MOPED
> > >daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
>> >> *************************************************
>> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 23:30:31 -0000
>> To:
>> Subject:
>Today, my boyfriend Tim got arrested in Lee County, Fl. while driving
>his Tomos Targa Lx.
Why don't you just go to your library and look up a copy of the statute
your self. I am POSITIVE your local library has a copy of your state
codified laws. It is most likely a large set of books. Find the index
and look up motorized vehicles/mopeds, etc. Then there will probably
be a couple of sections defining mopeds and what you need/don't need to
drive them.
Then when you find what you are looking for, RUN A COPY so you can show it
to anybody you need to. I kind of doubt, however, that a police officer would
arrest someone if they weren't sure what the law was. It doesn't reflect
positively on them to be making bad arrests.
All I know is that in South Dakota, you need a driver's license to drive a
moped, but you don't need a motorcycle license/endorsement.
Quit laying around and listening to what everyone else tells you because
nobody knows anything about mopeds. It's just because they hardly ever
deal with them. I went through the same thing when I started riding my
moped here in South Dakota.
Tell us what happens.
Jeff Coplan
Brookings, SD
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 11:59:19 -0400 (EDT)
To: <199712012355.RAA04917@mail.valuenet.net> From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject: Re: FOR sale
These are parts, not complete mopeds. read the posting carefully. If you
read only the first 4 words and the price, you miss the entire message.
Michael Liu
On Mon, 1 Dec 1997 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> *************************************************
> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 15:37:34 PST
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: britton14@hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: FOR sale
> > > I'd love to buy the PUCH-but from your past postings I get the idea that
> you live in New York-I live in Virginia and cannot drive that far. If I
> am wrong about your location please e-mail me at:
> britton14@hotmail.com
> > Thanks.
> > >From daugava@nothnbut.net Mon Dec 1 11:50:31 1997
> >Received: from mail.valuenet.net (ppp2.valuenet.net [207.230.63.3])
> > by mail.valuenet.net (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP
> > id NAA32513; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:48:57 -0600
> >From: daugava@nothnbut.net
> >Message-Id: <199712011948.NAA32513@mail.valuenet.net> > >Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 11:40:36 -0800
> >Subject: FOR sale
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> >To: "Moped Mailing List"
> >Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 13:39:16 -0400 (EDT)
> >To: Andrei Zaitsev
> >Subject: FOR sale
> > > > > >FOR SALE - used transmission for PUCH Maxi-Luxe (1977) - one speed $80
> > > >I replaced the tranny with a two-speed. The one speed actually goes
> >FASTER than the two speed at the same gearing-the one speed just
> takes
> >too long to get there. Includes entire engine except
> piston/cylinder/and
> >head. Works great!!!!
> > > >Michael Liu
> > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> > >
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 12:12:27 -0400 (EDT)
To: Andrei Zaitsev
Subject: advice
I switched my intake manifold from a 15 mm to a 14 mm in an effort to
reposition the carb so the float bowl doesn't slant up at 30 degrees. The
bowl is now flat, but I'm experiencing some weird problem.
The moped refuses to idle-it just goes-like I give it no throttle but it
goes to 30 mph. It's like it's getting gas even though the throttle isn't
engaged. When I do engage the throttle the acceleration picks up-so I know
that the needle still works.
One thing I noticed is that the old 15 mm was actually only 14 mm
round (154 sq mm) and the intake, but at the outtake it was a rectangular
22 mm by 11.5 mm (253 sq mm). The new 14 mm I put in is 14 mm straight
through. So, what's the effect of increasing the area from intake to
outtake? Seems to be like it achieves two things-first it couples the
manifold to the cylinder head (no sharp corners or sudden jumps), but
secondly-it also increases the volume which would serve to decrease the
pressure and ultimately DECREASE THE GAS/AIR VELOCITY at the entrance of
the cylinder. Just some thoughts-beyond that I can't figure it out. This
theory is all very nice but I can't apply it.
Any suggestions on how I can stop my moped from accelerating despite zero
throttle? Any ideas of what's going on.
I was thinking of grinding a similar outtake area into the 14 mm to
equivalently increase the area. Plus of re-aligning the float bowl.
Michael Liu
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:01:52 -0500 (EST)
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: SPOT1717@aol.com
Subject: mopeds in michigan
i just bought 2 puch mopeds and fixed them up. i was wondering how old u need
to be to drive them in michigan. someone said if it is under48cc its legal at
all ages!! is that true?????????????????
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 18:39:00 -0400 (EDT)
To: Andrei Zaitsev
Subject: update on PUCH problem
Well, since my last posting about the mysterious acceleration at zero
throttle. . .
I opened up the carb and made sure the float and needle/pins were in the
right place. I also made the out of the intake manifold a little
bigger. Since I changed two variables, I don't know what corrected it.
However, the problem is gone and one of these things corrected it.
Michael Liu
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 18:41:58 -0400 (EDT)
To: <199712022332.RAA00051@mail.valuenet.net> From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject: Re: mopeds in michigan
Call your DMV. Andrei has complied much info regarding mopeds. If one
thing is clear, its that no two states are the same. In New York,
depending on the top speed of the bike determines what kind of
licence or permit you need, whether or not you need a helmet or
insurance and which lanes you can ride in! Sheesh!!!
Michael Liu
On Tue, 2 Dec 1997 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> *************************************************
> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:01:52 -0500 (EST)
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: SPOT1717@aol.com
> Subject: mopeds in michigan
> > > i just bought 2 puch mopeds and fixed them up. i was wondering how old u need
> to be to drive them in michigan. someone said if it is under48cc its legal at
> all ages!! is that true?????????????????
> > > >
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 19:32:10 -0500
To: Kowiachobee.WORLDNET.ATT.NET@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
From: Kowiachobee.WORLDNET.ATT.NET@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: GOT ARRESTED WHILE DRIVING A MOPED
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 20:46:31 -0500
> To: chrislo@cfw.com
> From: chrislo@cfw.com
> Subject: Re: GOT ARRESTED WHILE DRIVING A MOPED
> > > Today, my boyfriend Tim got arrested in Lee County, Fl. while driving
> > his Tomos Targa Lx..
> > busted! awright! welcome to the club!
> getting stopped for riding a moped is almost as degrading as getting a
> ticket for riding a bike in germany without the manatory bell on the
> handlebar. it happens. pick on the littlest guys. they could grow up to
> be hells angels.
> the cop seems to have pulled a heavyweight from yon 'ped? or was it just
> hype, overzealousness? i'm curious.
> whatever. like the other posts have already said, it could be very easy
> or very hard to straighten out. others should be warned to be prepared,
> have written documents ready. give em paper before they give you any.
> government officials love paper. that proves their usefulness, justifies
> their existence.
> but what this about needing a motorcycle license to ride a moped in some
> states? helmets okay, but whoa! va has many faults but being commie
> isn't one of them.
Well Chris, thanks for the imput...Here's our daily update from the
commie state of fl. (enter @ your own risk) that includes that
includes wheel - chairs that are motorized.. Found out thur DMV:
according to their (opinion) via: interrup-a -ta-tion of the law that if
you drive a moped you must be licensed..black and white statement: no
room for grey...Tim & I went to Pt Charlotte, Fl. & got copies of former
court cases (thrown out) recently by compassionate judges on behalf of
the un-licensed moped driver (under 49cc's) peddle driven that is..
Then consulted two attorneys and had to fork out $500. mo- to get the
process rolling...seems Tim got two tickets 1) no head light 2) no
drivers license...now mind you he got arrested @ noon time, sun shining
and he was on his was to buy a bulb..ol'one in hand...
So: i predict we unless 'pigs can fly' we will have a beautiful hardly
driven 1996 Tomos Targa lx (black) with neon & a new 70cc kit already
installed for sale unfortunately...Our alternative is that Tim will have
to spend 320 days in a Fl. jail..... Thanks for your concern and we
hope somehow this experience can be turned around for others to benefit
those unfortunate folks who don't have licenses and thought driving a
moped was the answer to getting from point A . to B. without a hassle...
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 17:57:21 PST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: britton14@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: FOR sale
sorry about the mixup-didn't realize that the transmission ONLY was for
sale.
______________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:22:59 -0800
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: lincoln33@juno.com
Subject: Re: advice about moped idling
hi. the simple answer would be that you just need to adjust the throttle
screw or the gas-air mixture screw, and that might help. but it sounds
like you have most likely tried that, so i would recommend that you
should check the carbuerator jet sizes. call a moped shop and ask them
what they are supposed to be for your altitude. i am in colorado at high
altitude, and a new moped comes with sea-level settings. also, if they
have been "cleaned" with a wire or something that widens the jet size.
anyway, just take apart the carbuerator and look at the numbers on the
jets and try to get the right ones.
Lincoln Spencer
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:05:41 -0500 (EST)
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Munsoned4U@aol.com
Subject: Re: GOT ARRESTED WHILE DRIVING A MOPED
Man that sucks.
mike
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 07:32:34 -0800
To: agner@erols.com
From: agner@erols.com
Subject: Re: GOT ARRESTED WHILE DRIVING A MOPED
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 19:32:10 -0500
> To: Kowiachobee.WORLDNET.ATT.NET@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
> From: Kowiachobee.WORLDNET.ATT.NET@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
> Subject: Re: GOT ARRESTED WHILE DRIVING A MOPED
> > daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > > > *************************************************
> > Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 20:46:31 -0500
> > To: chrislo@cfw.com
> > From: chrislo@cfw.com
> > Subject: Re: GOT ARRESTED WHILE DRIVING A MOPED
> > > > > Today, my boyfriend Tim got arrested in Lee County, Fl. while driving
> > > his Tomos Targa Lx..
> > > > busted! awright! welcome to the club!
> > getting stopped for riding a moped is almost as degrading as getting a
> > ticket for riding a bike in germany without the manatory bell on the
> > handlebar. it happens. pick on the littlest guys. they could grow up to
> > be hells angels.
> > the cop seems to have pulled a heavyweight from yon 'ped? or was it just
> > hype, overzealousness? i'm curious.
> > whatever. like the other posts have already said, it could be very easy
> > or very hard to straighten out. others should be warned to be prepared,
> > have written documents ready. give em paper before they give you any.
> > government officials love paper. that proves their usefulness, justifies
> > their existence.
> > but what this about needing a motorcycle license to ride a moped in some
> > states? helmets okay, but whoa! va has many faults but being commie
> > isn't one of them.
> Well Chris, thanks for the imput...Here's our daily update from the
> commie state of fl. (enter @ your own risk) that includes that
> includes wheel - chairs that are motorized.. Found out thur DMV:
> according to their (opinion) via: interrup-a -ta-tion of the law that if
> you drive a moped you must be licensed..black and white statement: no
> room for grey...Tim & I went to Pt Charlotte, Fl. & got copies of former
> court cases (thrown out) recently by compassionate judges on behalf of
> the un-licensed moped driver (under 49cc's) peddle driven that is..
> Then consulted two attorneys and had to fork out $500. mo- to get the
> process rolling...seems Tim got two tickets 1) no head light 2) no
> drivers license...now mind you he got arrested @ noon time, sun shining
> and he was on his was to buy a bulb..ol'one in hand...
> So: i predict we unless 'pigs can fly' we will have a beautiful hardly
> driven 1996 Tomos Targa lx (black) with neon & a new 70cc kit already
> installed for sale unfortunately...Our alternative is that Tim will have
> to spend 320 days in a Fl. jail..... Thanks for your concern and we
> hope somehow this experience can be turned around for others to benefit
> those unfortunate folks who don't have licenses and thought driving a
> moped was the answer to getting from point A . to B. without a hassle...
How about a power-assisted bicycle with an electric motor. Do you need
a license for that?
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 10:28:57 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: paltron@interlog.com
Subject: Re: GOT ARRESTED WHILE DRIVING A MOPED
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 19:32:10 -0500
> To: Kowiachobee.WORLDNET.ATT.NET@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
> From: Kowiachobee.WORLDNET.ATT.NET@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
> Subject: Re: GOT ARRESTED WHILE DRIVING A MOPED
> > daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > > > *************************************************
> > Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 20:46:31 -0500
> > To: chrislo@cfw.com
> > From: chrislo@cfw.com
> > Subject: Re: GOT ARRESTED WHILE DRIVING A MOPED
> > > > > Today, my boyfriend Tim got arrested in Lee County, Fl. while driving
> > > his Tomos Targa Lx..
> > > > busted! awright! welcome to the club!
> > getting stopped for riding a moped is almost as degrading as getting a
> > ticket for riding a bike in germany without the manatory bell on the
> > handlebar. it happens. pick on the littlest guys. they could grow up to
> > be hells angels.
> > the cop seems to have pulled a heavyweight from yon 'ped? or was it just
> > hype, overzealousness? i'm curious.
> > whatever. like the other posts have already said, it could be very easy
> > or very hard to straighten out. others should be warned to be prepared,
> > have written documents ready. give em paper before they give you any.
> > government officials love paper. that proves their usefulness, justifies
> > their existence.
> > but what this about needing a motorcycle license to ride a moped in some
> > states? helmets okay, but whoa! va has many faults but being commie
> > isn't one of them.
> Well Chris, thanks for the imput...Here's our daily update from the
> commie state of fl. (enter @ your own risk) that includes that
> includes wheel - chairs that are motorized.. Found out thur DMV:
> according to their (opinion) via: interrup-a -ta-tion of the law that if
> you drive a moped you must be licensed..black and white statement: no
> room for grey...Tim & I went to Pt Charlotte, Fl. & got copies of former
> court cases (thrown out) recently by compassionate judges on behalf of
> the un-licensed moped driver (under 49cc's) peddle driven that is..
> Then consulted two attorneys and had to fork out $500. mo- to get the
> process rolling...seems Tim got two tickets 1) no head light 2) no
> drivers license...now mind you he got arrested @ noon time, sun shining
> and he was on his was to buy a bulb..ol'one in hand...
> So: i predict we unless 'pigs can fly' we will have a beautiful hardly
> driven 1996 Tomos Targa lx (black) with neon & a new 70cc kit already
> installed for sale unfortunately...Our alternative is that Tim will have
> to spend 320 days in a Fl. jail..... Thanks for your concern and we
> hope somehow this experience can be turned around for others to benefit
> those unfortunate folks who don't have licenses and thought driving a
> moped was the answer to getting from point A . to B. without a hassle...
Here is a little input from North of the border (Canada & Ontario in
particular) that may shed some light on how cops think.
The law used to distinguish here between 2 classes of motorised
bicycles: the one with an auxiliary engine mounted on a regular bicycle
(Solex-principle). That was normally 42cc or 30cc and you didn't need
anything to ride it. The other was (and still is) the REAL moped:
bicycle or motorcycle-looking frame, pedals that work, under 50cc
engine, 30 mph top speed. The first class was eliminated around 1975,
so Solexes all but disappeared from public roads. Plate law came in,
helmet law came in and all motorsied vehicles (without exception) MUST
have a headlight, a horn, a kill-switch, no manual shifting. We do not
have too many mopeds on the road (new ones are not coming in) but better
be prepared to be stopped if you ride without any of those listed above.
Cops make it simple: they either confiscate your moped and you are free
to go (if they're in a good mood) or you get a ticket and have to pay a
hefty penalty ($500.00) or try to fight it in court (and lose).
I believe it is for the benefit of the moped rider to possess a valid
driver's licence, wear a helmet and have a working headlight.
Without trying to pry into why this fellow cannot get a licence, I know
for a fact that authorities are coming down real hard on people who got
their licence suspended and think that a moped is the way out.
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:06:19 -0500
To:
Subject: Re: Florida Moped Laws
Alene wrote:
>Today, my boyfriend Tim got arrested in Lee County, Fl. while driving
>his Tomos Targa Lx..The officer told him he needed a drivers
>license..helmet, etc....Not true...The reason Tim bought a moped in the
>first place is that he cannot get a license...I am positive the law has
>not changed...What does anybody suggest...it's a peddled bike and under
>49cc's.....It cost us $100. for a bail bondsman and $1,000 in collaratal
>and they impounded the moped..costing $75. plus $10. per day....
>The officer was certain and so was I...but i have no proof...The dealer
>where we purchased the moped was no help at all.....any suggestions,
>cause the same thing could happen the next time he drives the moped in
>Lee County, Fl...We put a plate on the back, registered it legally, so
>should we not have registered it....Ya didn't need a license to register
>it.....The cop said that when Tim was stopped he was not peddling it,
>and the bike was motorized so he considered it a vehicle that ya need a
>license to drive....How can we straighten this out before his court date
>and for future moped drivers in Fl...... Thanks Alene & Tim
According to the "Florida Motorcycle Operators Manual," which I picked up at
the Driver's License office--and which is avilable at
http://fcn.state.fl.us/hsmv/index.html on the internet--you need a Florida
drivers license to operate a moped or a "motorized cycle. You do not have
to have completed a motorcycle safety course--as you would for a "real"
motorcycle.
For a moped (defined as under 50 cc with pedals) or a motorized cycle
(defined as under 50 cc but without pedals) you do not need a motorcycle
endorsement to your drivers license as long as the machine qualifies. That
is, the engine, in both cases, must be under 50cc in displacement or be
rated less than 2 (two) horsepower and not be capable of propelling "such
motorcycle at a speed greater than 30 miles an hour on level ground."
That's a direct quote.
Wow! What about my bi-turbo speed increase???
Watch the ANDs and ORs in the above state definition. If it can go over 30
mph, it is not a moped or motorized cycle anymore and you could be required
to obey the full morotcycle rules--motorcycle endorsement, safety course,
and helmet.
If the operator is 16 years of age or older, a helmet and eye protection are
not required. If under 16, then a bicycle-type helmet and eye protection
are needed.
You do need a registration tag, but that is just a money raising item here
in the land of no state income tax. Everything has a fee attached and all
occupations are licensed just to raise money--no license guarantees the
person licensed has any actual capability of performing the job for which he
or she is licensed; it just proves they could pay the fee.
Ian MacFarlane
St. Petersburg, FL
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:34:12 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: AaronM428@aol.com
Subject: Re: GOT ARRESTED WHILE DRIVING A MOPED
In a message dated 97-12-03 12:23:32 EST, you write:
<< Tim got two tickets 1) no head light 2) no
drivers license...now mind you he got arrested @ noon time, sun shining
and he was on his was to buy a bulb..ol'one in hand... >>
It seems to me that he should have kept the burned-out bulb in the headlight
socket, then the police officer wouldn't have ticketed him for no head light.
He should hace gone to the store, bought the new headlight, then taken out the
old one and replaced it at home. Just a hunch, but most likely the gaping
hole where the headlight was supposed to be attracted the officer, and Tim
would not have been stopped had the headlight been in its socket.
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 16:12:39 -0500
To: Kowiachobee.WORLDNET.ATT.NET@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
From: Kowiachobee.WORLDNET.ATT.NET@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: GOT ARRESTED WHILE DRIVING A MOPED
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 07:32:34 -0800
> To: agner@erols.com
> From: agner@erols.com
> Subject: Re: GOT ARRESTED WHILE DRIVING A MOPED
> > daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > > > *************************************************
> > Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 19:32:10 -0500
> > To: Kowiachobee.WORLDNET.ATT.NET@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
> > From: Kowiachobee.WORLDNET.ATT.NET@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
> > Subject: Re: GOT ARRESTED WHILE DRIVING A MOPED
> > > > daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > > > > > *************************************************
> > > Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 20:46:31 -0500
> > > To: chrislo@cfw.com
> > > From: chrislo@cfw.com
> > > Subject: Re: GOT ARRESTED WHILE DRIVING A MOPED
> > > > > > > Today, my boyfriend Tim got arrested in Lee County, Fl. while driving
> > > > his Tomos Targa Lx..
> > > > > > busted! awright! welcome to the club!
> > > getting stopped for riding a moped is almost as degrading as getting a
> > > ticket for riding a bike in germany without the manatory bell on the
> > > handlebar. it happens. pick on the littlest guys. they could grow up to
> > > be hells angels.
> > > the cop seems to have pulled a heavyweight from yon 'ped? or was it just
> > > hype, overzealousness? i'm curious.
> > > whatever. like the other posts have already said, it could be very easy
> > > or very hard to straighten out. others should be warned to be prepared,
> > > have written documents ready. give em paper before they give you any.
> > > government officials love paper. that proves their usefulness, justifies
> > > their existence.
> > > but what this about needing a motorcycle license to ride a moped in some
> > > states? helmets okay, but whoa! va has many faults but being commie
> > > isn't one of them.
> > Well Chris, thanks for the imput...Here's our daily update from the
> > commie state of fl. (enter @ your own risk) that includes that
> > includes wheel - chairs that are motorized.. Found out thur DMV:
> > according to their (opinion) via: interrup-a -ta-tion of the law that if
> > you drive a moped you must be licensed..black and white statement: no
> > room for grey...Tim & I went to Pt Charlotte, Fl. & got copies of former
> > court cases (thrown out) recently by compassionate judges on behalf of
> > the un-licensed moped driver (under 49cc's) peddle driven that is..
> > Then consulted two attorneys and had to fork out $500. mo- to get the
> > process rolling...seems Tim got two tickets 1) no head light 2) no
> > drivers license...now mind you he got arrested @ noon time, sun shining
> > and he was on his was to buy a bulb..ol'one in hand...
> > So: i predict we unless 'pigs can fly' we will have a beautiful hardly
> > driven 1996 Tomos Targa lx (black) with neon & a new 70cc kit already
> > installed for sale unfortunately...Our alternative is that Tim will have
> > to spend 320 days in a Fl. jail..... Thanks for your concern and we
> > hope somehow this experience can be turned around for others to benefit
> > those unfortunate folks who don't have licenses and thought driving a
> > moped was the answer to getting from point A . to B. without a hassle...
> How about a power-assisted bicycle with an electric motor. Do you need
> a license for that?
According to the DMV in Ft. Myers, Fl...the answer to your question is,
believe it or not YES...Tomorrow we may call the DMV and ask if we need
a license to operate a motorized wheelchair...Could you imagine grandpa
getting arrested???
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:23:59 -0500 (EST)
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: SPOT1717@aol.com
Subject: 1980 puch maxi sport
my moped has a lot of chips taken out of it. i think i should get the bike
repainted.i was going to have a body shop do it for me,but i was wondering
how much this might cost!???????
my moped just hit 2000miles today and i was wondering how many miles they
will go.also where is the cheapest place i could find a new piston and
rings..
i am buying a solex from my friend for$25made by sears but it needs the part
that drops down on the tire.. i really need this part please email me with
any info thanks........................................... is $25 a good
deal$$$$$$$$$$$$$?????? thanksfor your time
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 16:38:58
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: drstupid@usa.net
Subject: Re: [Re: advice about moped idling]
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
>> *************************************************
>> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:22:59 -0800
>> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
>> From: lincoln33@juno.com
>> Subject: Re: advice about moped idling
>> >> >> hi. the simple answer would be that you just need to adjust the throttle
>> screw or the gas-air mixture screw, and that might help. but it sounds
>> like you have most likely tried that, so i would recommend that you
>> should check the carbuerator jet sizes. call a moped shop and ask them
>> what they are supposed to be for your altitude. i am in colorado at high
>> altitude, and a new moped comes with sea-level settings. also, if they
>> have been "cleaned" with a wire or something that widens the jet size.
>> anyway, just take apart the carbuerator and look at the numbers on the
>> jets and try to get the right ones.
>> >> Lincoln Spencer
>>
Hey, I live in Colorado too, would changing my jet size help performance..Should it be larger or smaller than stock??
Thanks,
DS
____________________________________________________________________
Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 19:12:48 -0500
To: chrislo@cfw.com
From: chrislo@cfw.com
Subject: advice about moped idling
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
would changing my jet size help performance..Should it be larger or
smaller than stock??
nah. better to have one that fits right, more gas doesn't equal more
speed. ya need more air with it.
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 19:44:13 -0500
To: chrislo@cfw.com
From: chrislo@cfw.com
Subject: ARRESTED
> It seems to me that he should have kept the burned-out bulb in the headlight
> socket, then the police officer wouldn't have ticketed him for no head light.
> He should hace gone to the store, bought the new headlight, then taken out the
> old one and replaced it at home. Just a hunch, but most likely the gaping
> hole where the headlight was supposed to be attracted the officer, and Tim
> would not have been stopped had the headlight been in its socket.
ah, hindsight. i believe the cop just has a hard-on for small
"criminals". a potential hells angel.
seems a lone cop somewhere stops a lone mopedeer and wonders what to do
with him. can't just let him go. it goes to court and someone comes up
with a law to get money out of the next guy. plain and simple. taking
your hobby out on public roads has to be taxed. as a car is easily
defined, a moped has to be a moped: pedals, 30 mph max, blinkers,
whatever. without clear definition you have confusion and tickets to
pay.
if mopeds had a strong following (as they had when i was a 15 year old
kraut) legislature would surely be passed to make sure everyone pays
equally. its a shame, really. cuz many people would do just fine on a
moped...
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 19:48:10 -0500
To: chrislo@cfw.com
From: chrislo@cfw.com
Subject: Re: got arrested
chris loewl wrote:
> > I kind of doubt, however, that a police officer would
> > arrest someone if they weren't sure what the law was. It doesn't reflect
> > positively on them to be making bad arrests.
i once got busted driving within a group of five speeders. state trooper
stopped us ALL. that was fairly stupid and definitely not procedure, he
had no control over the situation. but we were all good folks so we let
him live that day. and paid our fines.
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 15:18:22 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: boyracer1@juno.com
Subject: Yamaha scooter for sale in Louisville
My friend has an early `80s black Yamaha scooter (I think it's a girl's
frame Towny- with one "S" shaped round bar curving down to the motor) it
has a white mar (about 0.5in. wide / 4in. long) under the left side of
the seat and the seat isn't perfect. But the rest of the bike is close to
perfect. The mar can probably be polished out.
*this bike is in Louisville, Kentucky, and I think he wants $300- for
it... Oh yeah it only has like 360 miles on it. Some old guy used to take
it to Fl. to ride around in his trailor park.
I have another friend with a batavus that needs some soap and a left
cover for the magneto or whatever that thing is. it has been in storage
probably for longer than I have been alive (21 yrs.). It was found during
some daed guy's estate sale.
*also in Louisville, the only problem with it is he wants $600- for it.
But it is really nice.
Thought you might want to know,
Chas
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:11:46 +0100
To:
Subject: Re: advice
----------
| Van: daugava@nothnbut.net
| Aan: Moped Mailing List
| Datum: dinsdag 2 december 1997 21:57
|
| *************************************************
| Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 12:12:27 -0400 (EDT)
| To: Andrei Zaitsev
| Subject: advice
|
|
| I switched my intake manifold from a 15 mm to a 14 mm in an effort to
| reposition the carb so the float bowl doesn't slant up at 30 degrees. The
| bowl is now flat, but I'm experiencing some weird problem.
|
| The moped refuses to idle-it just goes-like I give it no throttle but it
| goes to 30 mph. It's like it's getting gas even though the throttle isn't
| engaged. When I do engage the throttle the acceleration picks up-so I
know
| that the needle still works.
|
| One thing I noticed is that the old 15 mm was actually only 14 mm
| round (154 sq mm) and the intake, but at the outtake it was a rectangular
| 22 mm by 11.5 mm (253 sq mm). The new 14 mm I put in is 14 mm straight
| through. So, what's the effect of increasing the area from intake to
| outtake? Seems to be like it achieves two things-first it couples the
| manifold to the cylinder head (no sharp corners or sudden jumps), but
| secondly-it also increases the volume which would serve to decrease the
| pressure and ultimately DECREASE THE GAS/AIR VELOCITY at the entrance of
| the cylinder. Just some thoughts-beyond that I can't figure it out. This
| theory is all very nice but I can't apply it.
|
| Any suggestions on how I can stop my moped from accelerating despite zero
| throttle? Any ideas of what's going on.
|
| I was thinking of grinding a similar outtake area into the 14 mm to
| equivalently increase the area. Plus of re-aligning the float bowl.
|
| Michael Liu
|
Hi Michael,
Good thinking, the expansion from the manifold 'in' and carb 'out' has two
reasons, 1 standard mainfold for different carb sizes
2 bigger ' reserve blub' of fresh gas mix(and extra mix/mingle space) to
let the bike drive smooter acting on the gas valve, it is now not so
depending on the correct flow specs of the carb it selve, and gives better
acceleration at low revs.. (can also be obtained by a longer manifold) nice
for a city bike but dispited when racing, it gives unwanted turbulence at
the intake channel.(not relevant but thrue)
now the connection from mainfolt to carb is all but smooth, and needs
correction, i should prefer a job on the mainifold, widen it in height and
make some 'filler' from lead or an other meltable metal to fill in the left
over space at the sides, and make a smooth transition from round 14 to what
ever form in the middle of the manifold.
your idle problem could be or a air leak at the carb to mainfold connection
(or leaking gasket) or a not adjusted jet size / idle screw( or cable!) ,
in relation to the cylinder/exhaust combination.
tip: can't you make a 15 mm manifold that overcomes the fitting problem,
some gas pipe a iron plat e from 4/5 mm and some drilling and welding (or
make screwable threat at all parts) and you are ready, and have a perfect
manifold, and the large carb....
Bye, Peter.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Email : staal@concepts.nl
Homepages:
http://home.concepts.nl/~staal
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/7464
http://home.westbrabant.net/~staal/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:39:19 -0600
To: "Mailing List"
Subject: Targa LX bore kit
*** forwarded from alt.scooter, reply to proof@idt.net ***
Is there anyone out there who has a Tomos Targa LX and has
installed the 60 or 70 cc bore kit? I want to know what your
experience has been with it. I am considering getting it but it's kind
of expensive and am wondering if it is really worth it. Did it improve
acceleration from a dead stop and power on hills much? By how much did
your gas mileage go down? Did it cause any other problems for the
engine? Any other information would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Tony.
***************************************************************
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:47:32 -0600
To: "Mailing List"
Subject: New Moped Dealer in Texas
The name is Scooter & Moped World - check out this URL
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/ScooterMopedWorld/
Andrew
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 00:04:40 -0500
To: laurinj@videotron.ca
From: laurinj@videotron.ca
Subject: Re: 1980 puch maxi sport
> > my moped has a lot of chips taken out of it. i think i should get the bike
> repainted.i was going to have a body shop do it for me,but i was wondering
> how much this might cost!???????
> my moped just hit 2000miles today and i was wondering how many miles they
> will go.also where is the cheapest place i could find a new piston and
> rings..
> > i am buying a solex from my friend for$25made by sears but it needs the part
> that drops down on the tire.. i really need this part please email me with
> any info thanks........................................... is $25 a good
> deal$$$$$$$$$$$$$?????? thanksfor your time
Hi,
I just want to informe you that i have the parts you need for you Solex
but i don't know excactly which parts that drops down on the tire could
you give me some more informations please??? Also, I have the Puch
stickers (tank and side panels)if you plan to have your bike repainted
it could be usefull for you, all the stickers are new and in very good
shape... if your interested, let me know....
Thanks,
Jean-Sebastien Laurin
Parts and restoration on 60's, 70's mopeds
such as: Puch, Motobécane, Solex, Peugeot and more
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 19:14:22 -0500
To: libertybell7@earthlink.net
From: libertybell7@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: mopeds in michigan
No that information is inaccurate.. In Michigan you will have to be 15
years old and aquire a moped drivers permit at the secretary of state
office. Cost is $7.50 I think.. Mike
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:01:52 -0500 (EST)
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: SPOT1717@aol.com
> Subject: mopeds in michigan
> > i just bought 2 puch mopeds and fixed them up. i was wondering how old u need
> to be to drive them in michigan. someone said if it is under48cc its legal at
> all ages!! is that true?????????????????
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 13:02:38 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: paltron@interlog.com
Subject: Re: New Moped Dealer in Texas
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:47:32 -0600
> To: "Mailing List"
> Subject: New Moped Dealer in Texas
> > The name is Scooter & Moped World - check out this URL
> http://www.angelfire.com/biz/ScooterMopedWorld/
> > Andrew
Would be interesting to find out if he actually stocks and legally sells
them all and whether he has parts too. I'm particularly intrigued by the
story around Babetta (the new name for Jawa, this time out of Slovakia),
since American Jawa doesn't sell them, nor stocks parts for them. They
only sell the Puch Corrado, also from Slovakia, but a different plant.
Babettas come in kickstart or pedalstart version, 1 or 2-speed
automatics, and a Puch engine is optional.
The pending list certainly sounds like a wish list to Santa.
Has anyone actually talked to this guy?
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:22:40 -0600
To: "Mailing List"
Subject: Fw: Raleigh/Moto Graziella/Phillips/Norman mopeds
--------- reply to Underone@aol.com ----
Not you do or in fact where you are but if you can , put us on your
mail list ,if you want to know about British / Odd mopeds I'm your man!
Cheers
Vek
-----------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:37:39 -0500 (EST)
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Huvz@aol.com
Subject: '83 TRAC moped for parts
I recently got a fairly complete TRAC, and am parting it out.
Let me know if you need parts.
Scott H
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:41:17 -0500 (EST)
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Huvz@aol.com
Subject: Carabella moped - ever heard of it?
Anyone know about Carabella?
I am getting one this weekend that has a bad coil (allegedly).
What are the chances I can find parts?
Scott H
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:21:31 -0500 (EST)
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: GeeeTeee@aol.com
Subject: Re: ARRESTED
Together we must fight the system and tell the governments of the world that
mopedding is a free sport!
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 17:54:47 -0500
To: chrislo@cfw.com
From: chrislo@cfw.com
Subject: New Moped Dealer in Texas
> Subject: New Moped Dealer in Texas
> > The name is Scooter & Moped World -
bene, bene. the babetta looks just like it always has. riding on a
cagiva mito "scooter" is bound to get you stopped by cops...
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 18:01:56 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: paltron@interlog.com
Subject: Re: '83 TRAC moped for parts
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:37:39 -0500 (EST)
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: Huvz@aol.com
> Subject: '83 TRAC moped for parts
> > I recently got a fairly complete TRAC, and am parting it out.
> Let me know if you need parts.
> Scott H
And those with a TRAC mind can come to us for a manual.
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 18:04:02 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: paltron@interlog.com
Subject: Re: Carabella moped - ever heard of it?
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:41:17 -0500 (EST)
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: Huvz@aol.com
> Subject: Carabella moped - ever heard of it?
> > Anyone know about Carabella?
> I am getting one this weekend that has a bad coil (allegedly).
> What are the chances I can find parts?
> > Scott H
It is listed in the Champion spark plug chart so it must be real.
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 17:44:48 -0600
To: register@evansville.net
From: register@evansville.net
Subject: Defend your rights.
I am new to the mailing list. Subscribed as of a couple days ago. I want
to take a minutes to introduce myself and my company. One of these days
we'll get around to doing a home page.
My son Scott and I own and operate an independent motorcycle shop. I
started riding at 9 on a WWII war surplus $45 Cushman (I don't want to
say how long ago that was) At that time you could by a brand new
Allstate for $139. Scott started riding when he was 12 on $50 Honda
Express. We both love cycling and ride atleast several thousand miles a
year on a variaty of bikes.
We all know hard it is getting to find inexpensive scoots. But have you
ever consudered how essiential to the survival of the sport they are. I
am concerned about this aspect of cycling because the low cost scoots
are for the most part 2 cycle machines and they are under attack by
govenment. Recently outlawed in California. My experiance is most new
young riders start out on an 2 stroke. Without the inexpensive 2 stroke
I believe that we may not have the new blood to keep the sport alive.
I have been watching the e-mail messages about the Flordia rider that
got ticketed the other day for no licenses. Again I am concerned. When I
began riding there was no drivers or vehicle licensing, or insurance
requirement for scooters below 5 1/2hp. Since these laws have been
imposed I have seen cycling fade away to almost nothing. Before all the
laws almost everyone had a chance to experiance cycling.
I have never been politicaly orentated until a few years ago it finally
hit me between the eyes - what was going on. Our rights and liberties
are slowly but presistantly being erroded by a bunch of well intentioned
but misdirected do gooders that believe that they must protect us from
ourselves. I urge all riders to get involved with as many motorcylist
rights groups as possible and support them the best you can. The entire
motorcycling community probably amounts to a 1/2 percent of this GREAT
COUNTRIE's population. If we don't vigoursly stand up for ourselves who
will?
About our shop.....We try to take care of all two wheeled enthauist. We
occasionaly have mopeds, foreign and domestic motorcycles for sale but
we don't pursue that aspect. We are more into design and the performance
aspects of cycling and do a fair amount of Harley Davidson cuctom work.
We design and build some very large yet efficent M/C engines. We
currently are building a 106 and a 131cu in engines for customer that
are building custom motorcyles themselves.
We are doing R&D work on seveal intesting cycle projects one of which is
a small 4 cycle.
We have a good stock of moped and motorcycle parts. We also have a
motorcycle machine shop.
If we can be of service don't hesitate to ask.
Regards - Greg Dougan 21 Fun Stuff Cycle Shop
132 N Water St
Henderson, KY 42420
(502) 830-7240
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 18:07:00 -0600 (CST)
To: cyclepro@evansville.net
From: cyclepro@evansville.net
Subject: Re: Carabella moped - ever heard of it?
Could be almost anything - Carbabela had machines from 49 thru 490cc. I've
serviced some. I have 3 diffrent universal coils that works on most. What
you need depends what you getting. They start at $30.
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:38:59 -0600
To: "Mailing List"
Subject: Re: New Moped Dealer in Texas
> Would be interesting to find out if he actually stocks and legally sells
> them all and whether he has parts too. I'm particularly intrigued by the
> story around Babetta (the new name for Jawa, this time out of Slovakia),
> since American Jawa doesn't sell them, nor stocks parts for them.
I tend to believe that Babetta really is available.
American Jawa has not been selling Jawa mopeds for quite a while now.
Babetta web site ( http://www.unicorn-connection.co.uk/babetta/ )
came up recently - they said they were looking for distributors.
And now it looks like Scooter & Moped World started importing them - it all
fits
together.
Andrew
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 23:26:37 -0500
To: Kowiachobee.WORLDNET.ATT.NET@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
From: Kowiachobee.WORLDNET.ATT.NET@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: Defend your rights.
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 17:44:48 -0600
> To: register@evansville.net
> From: register@evansville.net
> Subject: Defend your rights.
> > I am new to the mailing list. Subscribed as of a couple days ago. I want
> to take a minutes to introduce myself and my company. One of these days
> we'll get around to doing a home page.
> > My son Scott and I own and operate an independent motorcycle shop. I
> started riding at 9 on a WWII war surplus $45 Cushman (I don't want to
> say how long ago that was) At that time you could by a brand new
> Allstate for $139. Scott started riding when he was 12 on $50 Honda
> Express. We both love cycling and ride atleast several thousand miles a
> year on a variaty of bikes.
> > We all know hard it is getting to find inexpensive scoots. But have you
> ever consudered how essiential to the survival of the sport they are. I
> am concerned about this aspect of cycling because the low cost scoots
> are for the most part 2 cycle machines and they are under attack by
> govenment. Recently outlawed in California. My experiance is most new
> young riders start out on an 2 stroke. Without the inexpensive 2 stroke
> I believe that we may not have the new blood to keep the sport alive.
> > I have been watching the e-mail messages about the Flordia rider that
> got ticketed the other day for no licenses. Again I am concerned. When I
> began riding there was no drivers or vehicle licensing, or insurance
> requirement for scooters below 5 1/2hp. Since these laws have been
> imposed I have seen cycling fade away to almost nothing. Before all the
> laws almost everyone had a chance to experiance cycling.
> > I have never been politicaly orentated until a few years ago it finally
> hit me between the eyes - what was going on. Our rights and liberties
> are slowly but presistantly being erroded by a bunch of well intentioned
> but misdirected do gooders that believe that they must protect us from
> ourselves. I urge all riders to get involved with as many motorcylist
> rights groups as possible and support them the best you can. The entire
> motorcycling community probably amounts to a 1/2 percent of this GREAT
> COUNTRIE's population. If we don't vigoursly stand up for ourselves who
> will?
> > About our shop.....We try to take care of all two wheeled enthauist. We
> occasionaly have mopeds, foreign and domestic motorcycles for sale but
> we don't pursue that aspect. We are more into design and the performance
> aspects of cycling and do a fair amount of Harley Davidson cuctom work.
> We design and build some very large yet efficent M/C engines. We
> currently are building a 106 and a 131cu in engines for customer that
> are building custom motorcyles themselves.
> > We are doing R&D work on seveal intesting cycle projects one of which is
> a small 4 cycle.
> > We have a good stock of moped and motorcycle parts. We also have a
> motorcycle machine shop.
> > If we can be of service don't hesitate to ask.
> > Regards - Greg Dougan 21 Fun Stuff Cycle Shop
> 132 N Water St
> Henderson, KY 42420
> (502) 830-7240
Good Luck in your shop..
Any ideas who Tim can allign with in the Ft. Myers ,Fl. area.. for HELP
..So far,enjoying his moped since May has cost him his moped, (title in
the hands of Mr Bail Bondsman,time and lots of cash... Handed attorney
$500. (borrowed) yesterday & he's sweating jail time due to (no
license)....Thanks for all of your support on this listing..We really
appreciate your concern & also the folks from the Moped shop in Pt.
Charlotte, Fl too. Tim & Alene
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:01:02 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: DWCarpenter@webtv.net
Subject: 79 JcPennys Swinger1
Just bought my first moped today, I got a 79 Swinger1 for 100 bucks.
Needs a brake cable, and tires, but besides that is in good condition
and runs strong. Since I am used to scooters, this is something
completely new to me, so if anyone knows abou this particular model,
please fill me in!
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:34:07 -0500 (EST)
To: Moped Mailing List
Subject: Re: New Moped Dealer in Texas
On Thu, 4 Dec 1997 paltron@interlog.com wrote:
> Would be interesting to find out if he actually stocks and legally sells
> them all and whether he has parts too.
He only has the mopeds he's claimed to have -- the rest is his wish list.
I've seen this countless times before, though this guy is more brazen
about it. He seems to use his wish list to find people for what he
already has, which bugs me a bit. I know that because I've heard from
several people who contacted him. He also tells people wanting scooters
that he sells scooters, but neglects to mention they are 50cc models,
which also bothers me. He's acting just a bit too much like a used car
salesman for my taste, sorry.
There are several dealers far ahead of him in line should Piaggio or
Aprilia decide to sell their wares in the US officially. And of course,
there are people bringing in those scooters unofficially, if anyone really
wants one. I know several US owners of the new Vespa ET4, for example.
~ Danny ~
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
syracuse ska!!
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:54:01 -0500 (EST)
To: Moped Mailing List
Subject: Re: Defend your rights.
On Thu, 4 Dec 1997 register@evansville.net wrote:
> We all know hard it is getting to find inexpensive scoots. But have you
> ever consudered how essiential to the survival of the sport they are. I
> am concerned about this aspect of cycling because the low cost scoots
> are for the most part 2 cycle machines and they are under attack by
> govenment. Recently outlawed in California. My experiance is most new
> young riders start out on an 2 stroke. Without the inexpensive 2 stroke
> I believe that we may not have the new blood to keep the sport alive.
This is a real concern and why several good friends have justified
smuggling in new scooters, though never in large enough quantities to
really make a big impact. I'm hoping the technology will catch up with
all the new regulations so that there are cheaper scooters available for
everyone, especially beginning riders. I think the most likely origins
for such bikes will be China and India. We'll see.
~ Danny ~
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
syracuse ska!!
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:57:14 -0500
To:
Subject: Re: Defend your rights.
Hi
I to believe that the laws are killing us. I just bought my boys age 12
&14 mopeds to ride, and went to the court house in Morrow county Ohio, and
found that the nether boy is old enough to ride, and that when oldest one
turns 15 that he needs a linces to ride and a plate on the moped. I think
like you it is a bunch of sh-t ! I rode at the age of 10 and fill that my
sons should to!!!!
I am tring to start a motobecane club here in the states, we don't have
one. There is one up north and one across the water in France. Do you do
much work on these peds? If you do any or here from any owners of Motobecane
please tell them of the club I'm trying to start. My e-mail is
6828t@bright.net, have them shot me a line. I'm trying to start my web page
also but just about lost on a computer. So wish me luck.
There is a few parts that I need for my 59 motobecane sold by Montgomery
Wards modle FZP14011, like a rear tail light lens , decompressed cable and
leaver on handle bares, plus a horn to meat the state laws. And last but not
least a plug in type gas cap, has BP zoom on cap.
Thank You
Bob T. 6828t@bright.net
-----Original Message-----
From: daugava@nothnbut.net
Subject: Defend your rights.
>*************************************************
>Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 17:44:48 -0600
>To: register@evansville.net
>From: register@evansville.net
>Subject: Defend your rights.
> > >I am new to the mailing list. Subscribed as of a couple days ago. I want
>to take a minutes to introduce myself and my company. One of these days
>we'll get around to doing a home page.
> >My son Scott and I own and operate an independent motorcycle shop. I
>started riding at 9 on a WWII war surplus $45 Cushman (I don't want to
>say how long ago that was) At that time you could by a brand new
>Allstate for $139. Scott started riding when he was 12 on $50 Honda
>Express. We both love cycling and ride atleast several thousand miles a
>year on a variaty of bikes.
> >We all know hard it is getting to find inexpensive scoots. But have you
>ever consudered how essiential to the survival of the sport they are. I
>am concerned about this aspect of cycling because the low cost scoots
>are for the most part 2 cycle machines and they are under attack by
>govenment. Recently outlawed in California. My experiance is most new
>young riders start out on an 2 stroke. Without the inexpensive 2 stroke
>I believe that we may not have the new blood to keep the sport alive.
> >I have been watching the e-mail messages about the Flordia rider that
>got ticketed the other day for no licenses. Again I am concerned. When I
>began riding there was no drivers or vehicle licensing, or insurance
>requirement for scooters below 5 1/2hp. Since these laws have been
>imposed I have seen cycling fade away to almost nothing. Before all the
>laws almost everyone had a chance to experiance cycling.
> >I have never been politicaly orentated until a few years ago it finally
>hit me between the eyes - what was going on. Our rights and liberties
>are slowly but presistantly being erroded by a bunch of well intentioned
>but misdirected do gooders that believe that they must protect us from
>ourselves. I urge all riders to get involved with as many motorcylist
>rights groups as possible and support them the best you can. The entire
>motorcycling community probably amounts to a 1/2 percent of this GREAT
>COUNTRIE's population. If we don't vigoursly stand up for ourselves who
>will?
> > > About our shop.....We try to take care of all two wheeled enthauist. We
>occasionaly have mopeds, foreign and domestic motorcycles for sale but
>we don't pursue that aspect. We are more into design and the performance
>aspects of cycling and do a fair amount of Harley Davidson cuctom work.
>We design and build some very large yet efficent M/C engines. We
>currently are building a 106 and a 131cu in engines for customer that
>are building custom motorcyles themselves.
> >We are doing R&D work on seveal intesting cycle projects one of which is
>a small 4 cycle.
> >We have a good stock of moped and motorcycle parts. We also have a
>motorcycle machine shop.
> >If we can be of service don't hesitate to ask.
> >Regards - Greg Dougan 21 Fun Stuff Cycle Shop
> 132 N Water St
> Henderson, KY 42420
> (502) 830-7240
> > >
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:15:47 -0500 (EST)
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: duckdogs@bright.net
Subject: Ohio licencing
Bob T. and Ohio mopeders,
I am holding in my hand a brochure from the Ohio
Department of Public safety. It states the requirements for operating a
moped.
1 To become licensed to operate a moped, 14 and 15
year olds have to pass the usual vision and
written tests, as well as a road test. This rule
will also apply to persons not currently holding a
valid operators license, regardless of age.
2 Probationary licenses will be required for 14 and
15 year old
operators.
3 The probationary license can be revoked until the
age of 16 if if the operator violates state laws
regulating moped operation or state or local
traffic laws, EVEN ONE TIME.
4 Operators will be required to obtain and display a
rear license plate.
ADDITIONALLY, you must-
* wear a protective helmet with a chin strap properly
fastened
if you are under 18
* drive a moped equipped with a rear view mirror
* operate the moped within three feet of the right
edge of the
right edge of the roadway
* never carry another person on the moped
I was also told I needed insurance, So I got a liability only
policy,cost
abt 30 bucks.
Greg and Dan Kauffman
Ross County Ohio
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:56:12 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Dashaun84@aol.com
Subject: Re: '83 TRAC moped for parts
I really need a trac manual.can you help me out.
How much would you sell the complete bike for ?
PLEASE REPLY
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:28:38 -0500 (EST)
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: SPOT1717@aol.com
Subject: PISTONS
I NEED A PISTON/CYLINDER AND RING KIT. IF U KNOW WHERE I COULD FIND THESE
PARTS PLEASE EMAIL ME.
MY MOPED STARTED MAKING A WEIRD SCRATHING NOISE COMING FROM THE PISTON. IS
THIS BAD FOR THE MOPED TO RUN OR CAN I STILL RUN IT.. PLEASE EMAIL ME SOON SO
I CAN GET THIS PROBLEM FIXED. THANKS
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:46:53 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Dashaun84@aol.com
Subject: Re: Yamaha scooter for sale in Louisville
Tell your friend with the scooter that I have about $200 I can spend for the
bike.But Im in New Jersey
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:37:36 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Huvz@aol.com
Subject: Re: 79 JcPennys Swinger1
i have a Swinger that is same as yours, and can help with parts.
Already sold the carb & airbox.
Mine has Mag wheels, and brakes, and stuff are good.
Let me know what u need.
Scott H
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:56:51 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: CrUsHeR78@aol.com
Subject: Re: PISTONS
what kind of moped do you have
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 20:13:40 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: ASprayberr@aol.com
Subject: Re: ARRESTED
I'm sorry, I don't understand all of this stuff. I have 11 motorcycles and a
scooter and a moped.
I have NEVER been bothered by a cop.
Why? simple.
I always wear a helmet
On my bikes/scooters/mopeds that I ride I keep insurance on them and a tag.
i have a license.
why is it hard for people to understand this? If it is driven on the road,
these are MOTORIZED vehicles using PUBLIC roads. Yes, all vehicles, in my
opinion should be held to the same laws on registration and insurance.
And look, you are pitching a fit about helmets. I am a nurse and a crash at 15
MPH can kill you or turn you into a veggie.
No, somedays I don't want to wear a helmet BUT face it it is the law. Heck I
don't like to pay taxes, the government since april has rapped me for 5000
bucks, not including sales tax, but what can you do, it is the law.
There is one thing, get organized and move politically. Taking yourself out on
the road not complying with existing laws will bring one thing, a ticket and a
court date.
Work to change the laws within the system, make sure you cover yourself and
comply with existing laws but move to change them politically. No matter what
the past "civil rights" campaigns show, civil disobediance doesn't work.
hell, become a reall politition, start a lobbying group. donate to the DNC,
sleep in the linclon bedroom. But do it politically. One man in prision
doesn't make a difference.
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 21:59:04 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: CazTrain@aol.com
Subject: hello
I am fifteen and am vvery interested in this subject and would like to learn
as much as possible and become active in your, well whatever you have it looks
cool....i definately want to invest in one or two and learn how to drive, fix,
and do anything with the things.........- can u help me?
thanx 4
considering
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 10:42:11 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Huvz@aol.com
Subject: Re: '83 TRAC moped for parts
I am in Ohio, and would sell the whole bike for $30. I have already used the
magneto cover ( plastic), the front fender, and the front brake arm ( where
cable connects), and the seat. Let me know if you want the rest, or ant part
thereof.
The engine and drivetrain are complete, but previous owner cited a clutch
problem?
Let me know what u need, I can ship it to you.
As for the manual, you can contact mopedmoped@aol.com, maybe they can help
you out.
One of the first replys to this posting was a guy with a manual, but I lost
his address.
You may want to post a request for the manual too.
Thanks Scott H
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 10:46:38 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Huvz@aol.com
Subject: Vespa Super Shop - San Diego
Anyone have e-mail address for these guys?
How about phone number?
I need wiring help on a Vespa Grande.
Scott H.
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 14:16:52 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: ChanFan4@aol.com
Subject: Re: Targa Exhaust
pleasetake me off this list
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 19:17:00 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: AaronM428@aol.com
Subject: Re: Defend your rights.
In a message dated 97-12-06 11:06:02 EST, you write:
<< I to believe that the laws are killing us. I just bought my boys age 12
&14 mopeds to ride, and went to the court house in Morrow county Ohio, and
found that the nether boy is old enough to ride, and that when oldest one
turns 15 that he needs a linces to ride and a plate on the moped. I think
like you it is a bunch of sh-t ! I rode at the age of 10 and fill that my
sons should to!!!! >>
Ohio Law says a 14 year old can be licensed for a moped, the 'ped does have to
have plates though.
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 00:22:04 -0500
To: Kowiachobee.WORLDNET.ATT.NET@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
From: Kowiachobee.WORLDNET.ATT.NET@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: ARRESTED
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 19:44:13 -0500
> To: chrislo@cfw.com
> From: chrislo@cfw.com
> Subject: ARRESTED
> > > It seems to me that he should have kept the burned-out bulb in the headlight
> > socket, then the police officer wouldn't have ticketed him for no head light.
> > He should hace gone to the store, bought the new headlight, then taken out the
> > old one and replaced it at home. Just a hunch, but most likely the gaping
> > hole where the headlight was supposed to be attracted the officer, and Tim
> > would not have been stopped had the headlight been in its socket.
> > ah, hindsight. i believe the cop just has a hard-on for small
> "criminals". a potential hells angel.
> seems a lone cop somewhere stops a lone mopedeer and wonders what to do
> with him. can't just let him go. it goes to court and someone comes up
> with a law to get money out of the next guy. plain and simple. taking
> your hobby out on public roads has to be taxed. as a car is easily
> defined, a moped has to be a moped: pedals, 30 mph max, blinkers,
> whatever. without clear definition you have confusion and tickets to
> pay.
> if mopeds had a strong following (as they had when i was a 15 year old
> kraut) legislature would surely be passed to make sure everyone pays
> equally. its a shame, really. cuz many people would do just fine on a
> moped...
Thanks for your imput..Actually, Tim not wearing a helmet (also not
manitory) caused Robo-cop to stop him too. Although Tim didn't get
ticketed for no helmet, but he did get the no light ticket..When I
looked up Fl. laws re: moped/license/etc.....According to the written
law: ya only have to use headlight 1/2 hr. before dusk or dawn unless
weather is bad....He was stopped @ around noon time, lovely Fl.
weather..We agree with you that the laws have to be more clearly defined
without so much grey for mixed interupation (sp?) just like my spelling
of that word, such is the conclusion of this confusion...thus far..
We hired a very rude good attorney & we are saying prayers to the Moped
Gods of Travel....for Tim not to spend the next yr. of his life in jail
and to also help others before they have to go thru this mess too..We
have a friend who also lives in Ft. Mysery, Fl. who doesn't have a
drivers license and travels around to work, etc. on his moped...(hoping
he doesn't run into Robo)--- We'll keep ya all updated..Thanks again for
all imput and caring... From: Alene & Tim & the sad black Tomos Targa
LX with many extras just hid in the storage shed (for now)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 00:26:56 -0500
To: Kowiachobee.WORLDNET.ATT.NET@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
From: Kowiachobee.WORLDNET.ATT.NET@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: Defend your rights.
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:57:14 -0500
> To:
> Subject: Re: Defend your rights.
> > Hi
> > I to believe that the laws are killing us. I just bought my boys age 12
> &14 mopeds to ride, and went to the court house in Morrow county Ohio, and
> found that the nether boy is old enough to ride, and that when oldest one
> turns 15 that he needs a linces to ride and a plate on the moped. I think
> like you it is a bunch of sh-t ! I rode at the age of 10 and fill that my
> sons should to!!!!
> I am tring to start a motobecane club here in the states, we don't have
> one. There is one up north and one across the water in France. Do you do
> much work on these peds? If you do any or here from any owners of Motobecane
> please tell them of the club I'm trying to start. My e-mail is
> 6828t@bright.net, have them shot me a line. I'm trying to start my web page
> also but just about lost on a computer. So wish me luck.
> There is a few parts that I need for my 59 motobecane sold by Montgomery
> Wards modle FZP14011, like a rear tail light lens , decompressed cable and
> leaver on handle bares, plus a horn to meat the state laws. And last but not
> least a plug in type gas cap, has BP zoom on cap.
> > Thank You
> Bob T. 6828t@bright.net
> -----Original Message-----
> From: daugava@nothnbut.net
> Subject: Defend your rights.
> > >*************************************************
> >Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 17:44:48 -0600
> >To: register@evansville.net
> >From: register@evansville.net
> >Subject: Defend your rights.
> > > > > >I am new to the mailing list. Subscribed as of a couple days ago. I want
> >to take a minutes to introduce myself and my company. One of these days
> >we'll get around to doing a home page.
> > > >My son Scott and I own and operate an independent motorcycle shop. I
> >started riding at 9 on a WWII war surplus $45 Cushman (I don't want to
> >say how long ago that was) At that time you could by a brand new
> >Allstate for $139. Scott started riding when he was 12 on $50 Honda
> >Express. We both love cycling and ride atleast several thousand miles a
> >year on a variaty of bikes.
> > > >We all know hard it is getting to find inexpensive scoots. But have you
> >ever consudered how essiential to the survival of the sport they are. I
> >am concerned about this aspect of cycling because the low cost scoots
> >are for the most part 2 cycle machines and they are under attack by
> >govenment. Recently outlawed in California. My experiance is most new
> >young riders start out on an 2 stroke. Without the inexpensive 2 stroke
> >I believe that we may not have the new blood to keep the sport alive.
> > > >I have been watching the e-mail messages about the Flordia rider that
> >got ticketed the other day for no licenses. Again I am concerned. When I
> >began riding there was no drivers or vehicle licensing, or insurance
> >requirement for scooters below 5 1/2hp. Since these laws have been
> >imposed I have seen cycling fade away to almost nothing. Before all the
> >laws almost everyone had a chance to experiance cycling.
> > > >I have never been politicaly orentated until a few years ago it finally
> >hit me between the eyes - what was going on. Our rights and liberties
> >are slowly but presistantly being erroded by a bunch of well intentioned
> >but misdirected do gooders that believe that they must protect us from
> >ourselves. I urge all riders to get involved with as many motorcylist
> >rights groups as possible and support them the best you can. The entire
> >motorcycling community probably amounts to a 1/2 percent of this GREAT
> >COUNTRIE's population. If we don't vigoursly stand up for ourselves who
> >will?
> > > > > > About our shop.....We try to take care of all two wheeled enthauist. We
> >occasionaly have mopeds, foreign and domestic motorcycles for sale but
> >we don't pursue that aspect. We are more into design and the performance
> >aspects of cycling and do a fair amount of Harley Davidson cuctom work.
> >We design and build some very large yet efficent M/C engines. We
> >currently are building a 106 and a 131cu in engines for customer that
> >are building custom motorcyles themselves.
> > > >We are doing R&D work on seveal intesting cycle projects one of which is
> >a small 4 cycle.
> > > >We have a good stock of moped and motorcycle parts. We also have a
> >motorcycle machine shop.
> > > >If we can be of service don't hesitate to ask.
> > > >Regards - Greg Dougan 21 Fun Stuff Cycle Shop
> > 132 N Water St
> > Henderson, KY 42420
> > (502) 830-7240
> > > > > > Hi, if you have a 12 volt system, you can put any type of a 12 volt
motorcycle horn on it...Also, what is a motobecane? Tim & Alene PS:
find out what kind of voltage you have before you can put anykind of a
horn on it..
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 00:31:40 -0500
To: Kowiachobee.WORLDNET.ATT.NET@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
From: Kowiachobee.WORLDNET.ATT.NET@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: GOT ARRESTED WHILE DRIVING A MOPED
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:05:41 -0500 (EST)
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: Munsoned4U@aol.com
> Subject: Re: GOT ARRESTED WHILE DRIVING A MOPED
> > Man that sucks.
> > mike
Yeah, Mike...it really does suck..
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 15:11:24 -0600
To: register@evansville.net
From: register@evansville.net
Subject: Kinetic Mopeds
Go a Dear John letter from the Kinetic importer (Mopeds LTD.) today. We
were a Kinetic dealer for them. Mopeds LTD. says they are no longer the
importer and at present the is none although another company is
attempting to obtain that status. I hope that works out. In any event
the Magnum model has been discontinued.
For those of you that own Kinetics I do have some spare parts in stock
and Mopeds LTD. has a few. So if you need something let us know. May be
we can help.
Regards, Greg
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 17:56:22 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: jthornest@aol.com
Subject: moped mailing
please subscribe me to the list. I have many questions about mopeds
especially the 1978 Solo Odyssey I have. I cannot seem to find any type
of info or parts for it. Do you have any suggestions?
Tim O'Brien twob@christa.unh.edu
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 17:50:01 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: paltron@interlog.com
Subject: Re: Vespa Super Shop - San Diego
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 10:46:38 EST
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: Huvz@aol.com
> Subject: Vespa Super Shop - San Diego
> > Anyone have e-mail address for these guys?
> How about phone number?
> I need wiring help on a Vespa Grande.
> Scott H.
phone 619-574-1818. Have your frame number and model year handy. Wiring
is different.
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 18:58:30 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: lincoln33@juno.com
Subject: Re: hello
On Tue, 9 Dec 1997 10:06:49 -0600 (CST) daugava@nothnbut.net writes:
>*************************************************
>Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 21:59:04 EST
>To: daugava@nothnbut.net
>From: CazTrain@aol.com
>Subject: hello
> > >I am fifteen and am vvery interested in this subject and would like to
>learn
>as much as possible and become active in your, well whatever you have
>it looks
>cool....i definately want to invest in one or two and learn how to
>drive, fix,
>and do anything with the things.........- can u help me?
> > > thanx 4
>considering
> > > hey whatsup? i am also 15 and interested in mopeds and dirtbikes and
scooters. i used to have a peugot moped and now i have a nice suzuki
dirtbike. i am from colorado where are you? i can get you lots of moped
connections.
lincoln spencer
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 09:43:50 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Imirm@aol.com
Subject: Garelli Moped
I own a 1979 Garelli Super Sport XL two-speed moped. Do you know any place I
could get manuals and/or parts for such a machine?
Thanks,
Tom Goertz
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 20:28:01 -0600
To: "Mailing List"
Subject: Fw: motobecane problem
------- reply to cybernaut
I just got a 1979 50VLC Motobecane. It runs great and goes at over 35
mph & is getting 119 mpg. There is one problem however. The weld
connecting the peddle shaft to the chain sprocket is broke. How do I
remove the peddle assemly to take it to the welder. How do I put it
back together? Also where do I get small battery powered turn signals
for it. Thanks:)
Dale
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 21:41:02 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: boyracer1@juno.com
Subject: Re: Yamaha scooter for sale in Louisville
He has more than 200 in it.... Email me personally
Chas
Boyracer1@juno.com
On Tue, 09 Dec 1997 10:06:49 -0600 (CST) daugava@nothnbut.net writes:
>*************************************************
>Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:46:53 EST
>To: daugava@nothnbut.net
>From: Dashaun84@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Yamaha scooter for sale in Louisville
> > >Tell your friend with the scooter that I have about $200 I can spend
>for the
>bike.But Im in New Jersey
> > >
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 21:49:16 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: boyracer1@juno.com
Subject: Re: Moped WANTED
I have a `79? Puch (pedal start), in Louisville KY. It used to run until
I tried to reset the timing. Compression is fine and I have a parts Puch.
I just don't feel like messing with it anymore. I want $125- for all
Chas
On Tue, 09 Dec 1997 10:06:49 -0600 (CST) daugava@nothnbut.net writes:
>*************************************************
>Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:41:34 -0500 (EST)
>To: daugava@nothnbut.net
>From: RED5596422@aol.com
>Subject: Moped WANTED
> > >I am looking for a non running ped that is pricewise cheap Preferably
>a
>kickstart but pedal start ok
> > > > >George
> > >
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 22:15:17 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Huvz@aol.com
Subject: What would be considered "cream of the crop" ?
What would be the top moped brands ?
Who's were the better constructed ones?
Who's were the most durable?
Who sold the most ? ( Us & Worldwide )
Are there any models that would be considered"collectable" ?
I'm sort of new to mopeds, and want to know which ones to look for.
Thanks for your help!
Scott H
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 19:51:41 PST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: britton14@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Garelli Moped
steve's mopeds has just about everything. i'm not sure what the address
is but any search engine will find it. good luck,
-Britton
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 22:02:14 -0600
To: "Mailing List"
Subject: "Porting job for speed"
Hans Hartman's "porting job for speed" article is now available in HTML
format
See /d/moped/port.htm
Andrew
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 02:05:19 -0500
To: laurinj@videotron.ca
From: laurinj@videotron.ca
Subject: Re: Garelli Moped
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 09:43:50 EST
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: Imirm@aol.com
> Subject: Garelli Moped
> > I own a 1979 Garelli Super Sport XL two-speed moped. Do you know any place I
> could get manuals and/or parts for such a machine?
> > Thanks,
> > Tom Goertz
I have some parts
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:23:37 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: paltron@interlog.com
Subject: Re: What would be considered "cream of the crop" ?
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 22:15:17 EST
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: Huvz@aol.com
> Subject: What would be considered "cream of the crop" ?
> > What would be the top moped brands ?
> Who's were the better constructed ones?
> Who's were the most durable?
> Who sold the most ? ( Us & Worldwide )
> Are there any models that would be considered"collectable" ?
> I'm sort of new to mopeds, and want to know which ones to look for.
> Thanks for your help!
> Scott H
Best equipped all around, easiest to start: Mobylette 51V automatic
(French)
Most comfortable and winner of the design award: Piaggio Si (Italian)
Most durable: Batavus HS-50 (rustfree frame)(The Netherlands)
Largest number sold (under different names): Puch (Austria)
Collectable: practically all
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:22:32 -0400 (EDT)
To: <199712092246.QAA18708@mail.valuenet.net> From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject: Re: Moped WANTED
Try the Moped Warehouse in CT. He's got them up the ying yang!
Michael Liu
On Tue, 9 Dec 1997 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> *************************************************
> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:41:34 -0500 (EST)
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: RED5596422@aol.com
> Subject: Moped WANTED
> > > I am looking for a non running ped that is pricewise cheap Preferably a
> kickstart but pedal start ok
> > > > > George
> > >
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:01:31 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: 6828t@bright.net
Subject: Re: "Porting job for speed"
Hi
About porting your peds, I think that you should put a line or to in
there about how much work doing this porting is, and a little stiff warning
about how easy it is to mess up. Something like if you don't know what you
are doing ( DON'T DO IT )!!!!! You have a lot of young kids out there that
reads this posting that don't know what a screw driver is for, What you
don't know can kill your moped and cost you more to fix, than the job will
cost in the first place. ( SO IF YOU DON'T KNOW HOW DON'T DO IT ) less you
have the money to replace all parts!!!!!! You make it sound to easy!!!!!!!!
Thank You
Bob T.
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> *************************************************
> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 22:02:14 -0600
> To: "Mailing List"
> Subject: "Porting job for speed"
> > Hans Hartman's "porting job for speed" article is now available in HTML
> format
> See /d/moped/port.htm
> > Andrew
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:53:58 +0100
To: "Moped Mailinglist"
Subject: Re: information please on moped
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Fred Zimring
Onderwerp: information please on moped
>I recently acquired a moped, originally sold in the US by Sears, but the
>data plate gives the manufacturer as Kromag. It is stamped 50cc and says
>it was manufactured in 5/78.
>I would like to know about availability of parts, especially brakes, and
>service and parts manuals.
>Do you know this moped?
>thanks,
> Fred Z.
>
Hi Fred,
Sorry to disapoint you but i don't know the brand, so i forwarded your
request to the moped mailing list, you can join, or visit the history at :
http://www.inlink.com/~daugava/mprimer.htm
may be they know some answers,
Bye, Peter Staal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Email: staal@concepts.nl
Home: http://home.concepts.nl/~staal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:08:34 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: AaronM428@aol.com
Subject: Re: ARRESTED
In a message dated 97-12-09 20:03:21 EST, you write:
<< a crash at 15 MPH can kill you or turn you into a veggie. >>
Exactly what I've heard, 15 mph is all the human brain can withstand.
Besides, The moped my not be moving fast, but the car that hits you probably
is.
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:12:27 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: AaronM428@aol.com
Subject: Re: moped mailing
In a message dated 97-12-10 11:16:14 EST, you write:
<< 1978 Solo Odyssey I have. >>
Wow. As far as I know the Odyssey is the only water cooled moped ever built.
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:11:10 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: AaronM428@aol.com
Subject: Re: What would be considered "cream of the crop" ?
In a message dated 97-12-10 08:22:26 EST, you write:
<< Who sold the most ? ( Us & Worldwide ) >>
Tomos claims to be the best selling moped in the States.
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:36:16 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Dashaun84@aol.com
Subject: Re: '83 TRAC moped for parts
Ok I want to buy the whole bike.how does it look.Does it run.and how much do
you think it would cost to ship the bike to New Jersey
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:55:38 -0500 (EST)
To: Moped Mailing List
Subject: Re: moped mailing
On Wed, 10 Dec 1997 AaronM428@aol.com wrote:
> Wow. As far as I know the Odyssey is the only water cooled moped ever built.
Well, if we consider most 50cc scooters to also be mopeds, there are quite
a few water-cooled ones currently, including the Piaggio NRG2 ...
~ Danny ~
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
syracuse ska!!
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:41:09 -0700
To: "'daugava@nothnbut.net'"
Subject: RE: ARRESTED
OK, I'm confused. The difference between a 49cc Moped in a crash at
15-20 mph and a bicycle at the same speed is ? Sounds to me that our
legal beagles should outlaw bicycles until the age 16. Give tickets for
no helmets and hey, lets require headlights (working of course) for all
bicycles.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: daugava@nothnbut.net [SMTP:daugava@nothnbut.net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 1997 1:36 PM
To: Moped Mailing List
Subject: Re: ARRESTED
*************************************************
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:08:34 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: AaronM428@aol.com
Subject: Re: ARRESTED
In a message dated 97-12-09 20:03:21 EST, you write:
<< a crash at 15 MPH can kill you or turn you into a veggie. >>
Exactly what I've heard, 15 mph is all the human brain can
withstand.
Besides, The moped my not be moving fast, but the car that hits
you probably
is.
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:47:48 -0500
To: chrislo@cfw.com
From: chrislo@cfw.com
Subject: "Porting job for speed"
> > Hans Hartman's "porting job for speed" article is now available
a hypothetical question: you eagerly take the cylinder off your zuendapp
zd 25 for the first time and the piston doesn't have a "skirt" i.e. it
has no "windows" on the sides. now what?
bonus question: i keep wondering how all you puch owners pronounce the
name? "puck" or "pook" i assume?
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 19:05:54 -0800
To: fredez2@airmail.net
From: fredez2@airmail.net
Subject: Info about moped -- Kromag
I have just acquired a moped. The data tag says its a Kromag,
manufactured in 1978 and marketed int he U.S. by Sears under their part
number 817.80800. I am looking for any information on the moped I can
find, such as service and parts information and sources.
Any advise will be greatly appreciated.
It's my first Moped, runs good, and is lots of fun to ride. (I am old,
but I haven't grown up yet)
Thanks, Fred
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 19:43:25 -0500
To: chrislo@cfw.com
From: chrislo@cfw.com
Subject: Re: ARRESTED
The difference between a 49cc Moped in a crash at
> 15-20 mph and a bicycle at the same speed is ? Sounds to me that our
> legal beagles should outlaw bicycles until the age 16. Give tickets for
> no helmets and hey, lets require headlights (working of course) for all
> bicycles.
> > Rick
don't be giving them any "great" ideas. most folks nowadays wear helmets
on their bikes anyway. don't seem to have the talent and confidence we
had as kids. thats where i would draw the line. i would never wear a
bike helmet, save in the woods going over rough terrain.
' course i don't get it when pedestrians get hit by cars. where are
these people while they're walking? mas?
okay, i got hit by a car once in 3rd grade while riding a bike. my
"honey" had come to play in my street, the street was tree-lined and i
had a bike which was waaay too big for me to handle. my fault and my
mothers fault. but legally the drivers fault.
on a moped you tend to drive differently than on a bike (e.g. use a
sidewalk) plus you can't hear everything that goes around you with your
tuned motor puttering away. helmets okay.
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:45:06 -0600
To: airdo@ix.netcom.com
From: airdo@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: Info about moped -- Kromag
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 19:05:54 -0800
> To: fredez2@airmail.net
> From: fredez2@airmail.net
> Subject: Info about moped -- Kromag
> > I have just acquired a moped. The data tag says its a Kromag,
> manufactured in 1978 and marketed int he U.S. by Sears under their
> part
> number 817.80800. I am looking for any information on the moped I can
> find, such as service and parts information and sources.
> > Any advise will be greatly appreciated.
> > It's my first Moped, runs good, and is lots of fun to ride. (I am old,
> but I haven't grown up yet)
> > Thanks, Fred
HI FRED, MY NAME IS CARLO I ALSO HAVE A SEARS MOPED , KROMAG ON TITLE,
1978, NUMBER 817-80820.SAYS "FREE SPIRIT" ON BIKE.I PICKED UP A SERVICE
MANUAL AT A CAR SWAP.I DONT HAVE ANY SPARE PARTS YET EITHER.BUT, SO FAR
I DONT NEED ANYTHING YET.I LIVE IN IL. AM 54 YEARS OLD AND HAVE'NT
GROWN UP EITHER.ALSO, HAVE A GARELLI, AND A COUPLE VESPAS.,AND A PENNYS
SWINGER NEEDING REPAIR.WELL, TALK TO YOU LATER.
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:18:24 -0400 (EDT)
To: <199712102045.OAA09753@mail.valuenet.net> From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject: Re: What would be considered "cream of the crop" ?
By the same token, FOrd is also the best selling car in the states.
However, Tomos isn't a domestic product. In fact, most mopeds aren't: thus
we are at the whim of the importers.
Michael Liu
On Wed, 10 Dec 1997 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> *************************************************
> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:11:10 EST
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: AaronM428@aol.com
> Subject: Re: What would be considered "cream of the crop" ?
> > > In a message dated 97-12-10 08:22:26 EST, you write:
> > << Who sold the most ? ( Us & Worldwide ) >> > > Tomos claims to be the best selling moped in the States.
> > >
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:18:55 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Huvz@aol.com
Subject: Re: ARRESTED
Get Down, ASpraybrr !
Tell the truth!
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:19:54 -0400 (EDT)
To: <199712110001.SAA13773@mail.valuenet.net> From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject: Re: "Porting job for speed"
POOK not like BOOK nor LOOK but more like DUKE
Michael Liu
On Wed, 10 Dec 1997 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> *************************************************
> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:47:48 -0500
> To: chrislo@cfw.com
> From: chrislo@cfw.com
> Subject: "Porting job for speed"
> > > > > > Hans Hartman's "porting job for speed" article is now available
> > a hypothetical question: you eagerly take the cylinder off your zuendapp
> zd 25 for the first time and the piston doesn't have a "skirt" i.e. it
> has no "windows" on the sides. now what?
> bonus question: i keep wondering how all you puch owners pronounce the
> name? "puck" or "pook" i assume?
> > >
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:20:51 -0400 (EDT)
To: <199712110050.SAA14753@mail.valuenet.net> From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject: Re: Info about moped -- Kromag
The free spirit was a Puch model a while back. Kind of a tubular frame
with a beatle shaped gas tank.
Michael Liu
On Wed, 10 Dec 1997 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> *************************************************
> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:45:06 -0600
> To: airdo@ix.netcom.com
> From: airdo@ix.netcom.com
> Subject: Re: Info about moped -- Kromag
> > > daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > > > *************************************************
> > Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 19:05:54 -0800
> > To: fredez2@airmail.net
> > From: fredez2@airmail.net
> > Subject: Info about moped -- Kromag
> > > > I have just acquired a moped. The data tag says its a Kromag,
> > manufactured in 1978 and marketed int he U.S. by Sears under their
> > part
> > number 817.80800. I am looking for any information on the moped I can
> > find, such as service and parts information and sources.
> > > > Any advise will be greatly appreciated.
> > > > It's my first Moped, runs good, and is lots of fun to ride. (I am old,
> > but I haven't grown up yet)
> > > > Thanks, Fred
> HI FRED, MY NAME IS CARLO I ALSO HAVE A SEARS MOPED , KROMAG ON TITLE,
> 1978, NUMBER 817-80820.SAYS "FREE SPIRIT" ON BIKE.I PICKED UP A SERVICE
> MANUAL AT A CAR SWAP.I DONT HAVE ANY SPARE PARTS YET EITHER.BUT, SO FAR
> I DONT NEED ANYTHING YET.I LIVE IN IL. AM 54 YEARS OLD AND HAVE'NT
> GROWN UP EITHER.ALSO, HAVE A GARELLI, AND A COUPLE VESPAS.,AND A PENNYS
> SWINGER NEEDING REPAIR.WELL, TALK TO YOU LATER.
> > >
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:16:26 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Huvz@aol.com
Subject: Garelli mini-bike
Anyone know where to get info/parts for 1966 Garelli Mini cycle?
Scott H
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:59:06 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Wrnch@aol.com
Subject: Re: Garelli Moped
Steve has been a great help locating wierd parts and solving several parts
accessability problems for me related to garrelli's and motobecanes, here's
his address and #'s
Steve's Moped & Bicycle World
40 Park Ave.
Dumont, New Jersey
07628
201-384-7777 Voice
201-384-7831 Fax
shassa@aol.com
George at Middletown Motorcycles
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 21:19:50 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: paltron@interlog.com
Subject: Re: "Porting job for speed"
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:47:48 -0500
> To: chrislo@cfw.com
> From: chrislo@cfw.com
> Subject: "Porting job for speed"
> > > > > Hans Hartman's "porting job for speed" article is now available
> > a hypothetical question: you eagerly take the cylinder off your zuendapp
> zd 25 for the first time and the piston doesn't have a "skirt" i.e. it
> has no "windows" on the sides. now what?
> bonus question: i keep wondering how all you puch owners pronounce the
> name? "puck" or "pook" i assume?
Not all pistons wear skirts. All the slits (windows) do really is to
time the crossover between the two cycles. If there is no slit, you make
one.
Re Puch: the correct pronounciation is with a strong "h" at the end,
like in Pookh.
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 21:21:27 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: paltron@interlog.com
Subject: Re: ARRESTED
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:41:09 -0700
> To: "'daugava@nothnbut.net'"
> Subject: RE: ARRESTED
> > OK, I'm confused. The difference between a 49cc Moped in a crash at
> 15-20 mph and a bicycle at the same speed is ? Sounds to me that our
> legal beagles should outlaw bicycles until the age 16. Give tickets for
> no helmets and hey, lets require headlights (working of course) for all
> bicycles.
> > Rick
Rick,
You will be surprised. Up here (Ontario, Canada) there is serious talk
about licensing bicycles.
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 21:25:56 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: paltron@interlog.com
Subject: Re: Info about moped -- Kromag
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:45:06 -0600
> To: airdo@ix.netcom.com
> From: airdo@ix.netcom.com
> Subject: Re: Info about moped -- Kromag
> > daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > > > *************************************************
> > Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 19:05:54 -0800
> > To: fredez2@airmail.net
> > From: fredez2@airmail.net
> > Subject: Info about moped -- Kromag
> > > > I have just acquired a moped. The data tag says its a Kromag,
> > manufactured in 1978 and marketed int he U.S. by Sears under their
> > part
> > number 817.80800. I am looking for any information on the moped I can
> > find, such as service and parts information and sources.
> > > > Any advise will be greatly appreciated.
> > > > It's my first Moped, runs good, and is lots of fun to ride. (I am old,
> > but I haven't grown up yet)
> > > > Thanks, Fred
> HI FRED, MY NAME IS CARLO I ALSO HAVE A SEARS MOPED , KROMAG ON TITLE,
> 1978, NUMBER 817-80820.SAYS "FREE SPIRIT" ON BIKE.I PICKED UP A SERVICE
> MANUAL AT A CAR SWAP.I DONT HAVE ANY SPARE PARTS YET EITHER.BUT, SO FAR
> I DONT NEED ANYTHING YET.I LIVE IN IL. AM 54 YEARS OLD AND HAVE'NT
> GROWN UP EITHER.ALSO, HAVE A GARELLI, AND A COUPLE VESPAS.,AND A PENNYS
> SWINGER NEEDING REPAIR.WELL, TALK TO YOU LATER.
Hey you guys,
It's not you, but "them" who haven't grown up. Keep the "free spirit"!
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 21:26:44 -0500 (EST)
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: SPOT1717@aol.com
Subject: finding used puch parts
do u think if i put a ad in the news paper for puch mopeds wanted i would get
any calls back. i live in a medium sised town in michigan. also do they sell
engine rebuild kits for puch mopeds as a complete set thanks please email
me with any info
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:36:50 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Barman3565@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tomos Targa for Sale!!!
Bought brand new in September! Only 350 miles on it. Tomos Targa LX with a
Bi-Turbo Exhaust. Well kept by me. I am 33 years old. So you know it was
not abused.
Loved them when I was 15, thought I would love it at 33. It's not the same
anymore.
Located in Woodbridge New Jersey.
Paid $1500 asking only $900.
Tom
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:40:35 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: CazTrain@aol.com
Subject: Re: hello
lincoln spencer....
thanx for replying....i am all the way over in NJ- Is it legal to
ride a dirtbike? or do u have to find private trails? any info on mopeds would
be helpful, i am trying to buy one as soon as possible
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 00:12:42 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: boyracer1@juno.com
Subject: Re: "puck" or "pook"
On Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:47:48 -0500 daugava@nothnbut.net writes:
>*************************************************
>bonus question: i keep wondering how all you puch owners pronounce the
>name? "puck" or "pook" i assume?
If it runs good and you like it...."pook"
any other time.... "pyook" (puke) :-)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:23:59 -0500
To: laurinj@videotron.ca
From: laurinj@videotron.ca
Subject: Re: Garelli mini-bike
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:16:26 EST
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: Huvz@aol.com
> Subject: Garelli mini-bike
> > Anyone know where to get info/parts for 1966 Garelli Mini cycle?
> Scott H
There's a lot of garellli mini-bike type....
there's a list of some of them, with ther's specification
+-------+---------------+---------------+------------+--------+------------+----------+
|name | type | engine | clutch | frame | suspens.
| speed |
+-------+---------------+---------------+------------+--------+------------+----------+
|city-bike mini |2st 35cc ,65hp |1 speed | tube | no | 25
km/h |
|Katia mini |2st 49cc 1,5hp |2speeds aut.| tube | 2 |
?????? |
|Mini bat mini |2st 49cc 1,5hp |4speeds man.| 2 tubes|
2 | 40 km/h |
|mini bat c mini cross | Same as Mini bat with cross tires | |
40 Km/h |
+-----------------------+-------------------------------------+------------+----------+
note: there's 1.6 km in 1 miles
hope this will help you
ļJean-Sébastien
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:30:38 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: gmoody@ibm.net
Subject: tranny woes
Hi Y'all!
My name is Barry, and I was given an older Tomos Moped. It wasn't
running at all, so I went to the library and got a moped repair/service
manual. SUCCESS! I got it running, very well as a matter of fact, but I
am now stymied by a problem with the transmission. It "slipped" quite
noticeably when I first tested it, but I thought that it was due to low
level of transmission fluid. EASY, I thought, but when I filled it up
(to just below the top, as instructed by the manual) it stopped working
completely. It now runs fine in first gear, but won't shift into second
at all. HELP! I would appreciate any help or advice that you would care
to offer.
Thank You,
Barry (barry@oberry.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:09:36 +0100
To:
Subject: Re: What would be considered "cream of the crop" ?
At 22:02 9-12-97 -0600, you wrote:
>From: Huvz@aol.com
>Subject: What would be considered "cream of the crop" ?
As a moped mechanic I have seen my share of mopeds, and after my 20 years
experience as a moped collectioner and user, I come to this conclusion:
> What would be the top moped brands ?
Honda
> Who's were the better constructed ones?
Depends on what you think is better. Honda's are not the most sophisticated
pieces of machinery, but they sure are reliable...
> Who's were the most durable?
Honda
> Who sold the most ? ( Us & Worldwide )
Honda sold milions of the model 'Cub 50' worldwide.
> Are there any models that would be considered"collectable" ?
Oddly enough, Honda. You might think that the moped which was produced in
these numbers, is not interesting enough to be a collectors item. Over here
in the netherlands, it now is a collectors item...
No one really cared for these mopeds in the days they were available en
gros, but scince the importer stopped selling them (1978) they became more
and more rare.
It is amazing to see so many mopeds disapear in this short time. Strangly
enough it's always the one which sold the best.
Cheers,
Hans Hartman
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:25:26 +0100
To:
Subject: Re: "Porting job for speed"
Hey, Bob...
At 20:53 10-12-97 +0100, you wrote:
>From: 6828t@bright.net
>Subject: Re: "Porting job for speed"
> About porting your peds, I think that you should put a line or to in
>there about how much work doing this porting is, and a little stiff warning
>about how easy it is to mess up. Something like if you don't know what you
>are doing ( DON'T DO IT )!!!!! You have a lot of young kids out there that
>reads this posting that don't know what a screw driver is for, What you
>don't know can kill your moped and cost you more to fix, than the job will
>cost in the first place. ( SO IF YOU DON'T KNOW HOW DON'T DO IT ) less you
>have the money to replace all parts!!!!!! You make it sound to easy!!!!!!!!
How did you do it, Bob? I mean, you seem to know what you're talking about..
Did you wait till you were old and wise enough to tune your moped? All I
knew in my first tuning job was some hear-say how to tune it. On the
internet, they get a very nice manual with pictures and comprehensive
descriptions.
And of course they're going to screw up some cylinders, wreck some
crankshafts and destroy a few carburettors. No big deal... I for one did
destroy my share of expensive components, and I expect you did yours too...
Money and common sense is no object in tuning your engine..
Besides, I can't imagine anyone is going to experiment on a brand-new moped.
I understand, it is common practice in the US to patronize kids and warn
people not to dry their poodle dog in the microwave oven.
Let the children play...
Hans Hartman
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 15:36:10 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: AaronM428@aol.com
Subject: Re: ARRESTED
In a message dated 97-12-11 11:21:04 EST, you write:
<< most folks nowadays wear helmets
on their bikes anyway. don't seem to have the talent and confidence we
had as kids. thats where i would draw the line. i would never wear a
bike helmet >>
I always wear a helmet on my bicycle, not for lack of ability or confidence in
it, but for my lack of confidence in OTHER PEOPLE'S ability. Like the cousin
who runs his bike up my back tire, then claims it was all "just for fun" as I
get up out if the mud puddle. There are far too many idiots out there for me
to take any chances.
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:49:30 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: paltron@interlog.com
Subject: Re: tranny woes
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:30:38 -0500
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: gmoody@ibm.net
> Subject: tranny woes
> > Hi Y'all!
> My name is Barry, and I was given an older Tomos Moped. It wasn't
> running at all, so I went to the library and got a moped repair/service
> manual. SUCCESS! I got it running, very well as a matter of fact, but I
> am now stymied by a problem with the transmission. It "slipped" quite
> noticeably when I first tested it, but I thought that it was due to low
> level of transmission fluid. EASY, I thought, but when I filled it up
> (to just below the top, as instructed by the manual) it stopped working
> completely. It now runs fine in first gear, but won't shift into second
> at all. HELP! I would appreciate any help or advice that you would care
> to offer.
> Thank You,
> Barry (barry@oberry.com)
1. What did you use for tranny oil?
2. Older Tomos' have all this problem and it comes from the shifting
clutch slipping. Have to take it apart (not easy) and de-grease the
surfaces with some agent, like alkohol. It's also possible that the
first gear's teeth are sheared down in which case you need to replace
it.
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:58:51 -0500
To: chrislo@cfw.com
From: chrislo@cfw.com
Subject: Re: "Porting job for speed"
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
If there is no slit, you make one.
thats what i did. a lot of work. couldn't ride for 2 two days. then ran
out of sandpaper and had o get some with a bicycle. uncool.
> Re Puch: the correct pronounciation is with a strong "h" at the end,
> like in Pookh.
just like "achtung"
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:18:08 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: CazTrain@aol.com
Subject: Re: "Porting job for speed"
could someone please explain "porting"???!!!!
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:26:32 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: CazTrain@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tomos Targa for Sale!!!
Hey......Tom in Woodbridge.....could you send me some info on the moped you
are trying to sell, i am very interested...... CazTrain@aol.com
Thanx
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:49:40 -0600
To: airdo@ix.netcom.com
From: airdo@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: 50cc Indian Dirt Bike, 78-80
McGoo49 wrote:
> > Looking for piston & rings, Franco Morini eng. Any ideas?????
TWO PLACES TO CHECK.COSMOPOLITAN MOTORS,1-800-523-2522.AND,C.P.C.
1-800-356-0777.THE NET PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE MORE
NUNBERS.E-MAIL-DAUGAVA@NOTHNBUT.NET I'll FORWARD THIS MESSAGE TO THEM.
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:58:40 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: 6828t@bright.net
Subject: Re: "Porting job for speed"
--------------84C9A64426C2B62A6786AD22
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
HI again
Hey do you have kids???? I do and it is hard enouth to feed and cloth them
without new cylinders and pistons and yes carbs, belive me they will do it to
new mopeds and any that they can get there hands on they are kids,bless there
little harts. The posting I read did not give them enough info to go on. How
about a little adult supervision in there. You did say how the durability goes
way down after tuning.( Yes by all means they need a complete manual on how to.
That is all I mean to imply)
Thank You
Bob T.
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:01:10 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: GeeeTeee@aol.com
Subject: Re: hello
Hey guys. I am also 15 and have an oddesy moped. I have friends with snow
mobiles. i am into anything gas powered
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:03:03 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: GeeeTeee@aol.com
Subject: Re: moped mailing
Hey tim,
I have a 76 solo and i love it. do u like yours?
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:58:10 -0600
To: "Mailing List"
Subject: Fw: Honda Express
------- reply to JD_DITTOMAN@HOTMAIL.COM ------
I just bought a bike as a unique fixer-upper opportunity. The crossbar
says Honda Express and the guy who sold it to me said it is a '79 ...
I'm trying to come up with a repair manual for it .
Justin Malcolm
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:12:35 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: HarHill@aol.com
Subject: Re: Info about moped -- Kromag
Join the fun.
Have had a Kromag ( Sears, Puch ) for quite some time. Good bike, mags and all
!
Harold
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 01:09:28 -0800 (PST)
To: Moped Mailing List
Subject: Re: Fw: Honda Express
I have an '80 express that I'm slowly fixing. It came with a Clymer's
manual. If you can't find a manual from Honda or Clymer, I'll be glad to
find answers to your questions in the manual that I have.
-Dave
> I just bought a bike as a unique fixer-upper opportunity. The crossbar
> says Honda Express and the guy who sold it to me said it is a '79 ...
> I'm trying to come up with a repair manual for it .
> > Justin Malcolm
> > > > >
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:43:32 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: ckoerner@motown.lmco.com
Subject: Re: "Porting job for speed"
Well stated Hans!
The last thing we need is for society to help us even MORE! Are we all so lame
nowadays we can't make any decisions on our own without more WARNINGS and
CONTROLS??? Desides, the article DOES contain a warning at the end. I'd jump for
joy if my son got off his ass and took the initiative to do such a complicated
task...and I know he'd ask me for help if he needed it.
Chuck
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> *************************************************
> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:25:26 +0100
> To:
> Subject: Re: "Porting job for speed"
> > Hey, Bob...
> At 20:53 10-12-97 +0100, you wrote:
> > >From: 6828t@bright.net
> >Subject: Re: "Porting job for speed"
> > > About porting your peds, I think that you should put a line or to in
> >there about how much work doing this porting is, and a little stiff warning
> >about how easy it is to mess up. Something like if you don't know what you
> >are doing ( DON'T DO IT )!!!!! You have a lot of young kids out there that
> >reads this posting that don't know what a screw driver is for, What you
> >don't know can kill your moped and cost you more to fix, than the job will
> >cost in the first place. ( SO IF YOU DON'T KNOW HOW DON'T DO IT ) less you
> >have the money to replace all parts!!!!!! You make it sound to easy!!!!!!!!
> > How did you do it, Bob? I mean, you seem to know what you're talking about..
> Did you wait till you were old and wise enough to tune your moped? All I
> knew in my first tuning job was some hear-say how to tune it. On the
> internet, they get a very nice manual with pictures and comprehensive
> descriptions.
> > And of course they're going to screw up some cylinders, wreck some
> crankshafts and destroy a few carburettors. No big deal... I for one did
> destroy my share of expensive components, and I expect you did yours too...
> Money and common sense is no object in tuning your engine..
> Besides, I can't imagine anyone is going to experiment on a brand-new moped.
> > I understand, it is common practice in the US to patronize kids and warn
> people not to dry their poodle dog in the microwave oven.
> > Let the children play...
> > Hans Hartman
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:49:24 -0400 (EDT)
To: <199712110230.UAA16783@mail.valuenet.net> From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject: Re: Garelli Moped
In addition to Steve's, try
Mickey's (tomostomos@aol.com). I was at his shop this weekend. He has
DRAWERFULS of BRAND NEW MOTOBECANE PARTS!!!!!
Michael Liu
On Wed, 10 Dec 1997 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> *************************************************
> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:59:06 EST
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: Wrnch@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Garelli Moped
> > > Steve has been a great help locating wierd parts and solving several parts
> accessability problems for me related to garrelli's and motobecanes, here's
> his address and #'s
> > Steve's Moped & Bicycle World
> 40 Park Ave.
> Dumont, New Jersey
> 07628
> > 201-384-7777 Voice
> 201-384-7831 Fax
> shassa@aol.com
> > George at Middletown Motorcycles
> > > > >
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 19:24:55 +0100
To:
Subject: Re: What would be considered "cream of the crop" ?
At 15:36 11-12-97 EST, you wrote:
>*************************************************
>Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:09:36 +0100
>To:
>Subject: Re: What would be considered "cream of the crop" ?
> > >At 22:02 9-12-97 -0600, you wrote:
>>From: Huvz@aol.com
>>Subject: What would be considered "cream of the crop" ?
> >As a moped mechanic I have seen my share of mopeds, and after my 20 years
>experience as a moped collectioner and user, I come to this conclusion:
> >> What would be the top moped brands ?
> >Honda
> I totally agree
>> Who's were the better constructed ones?
> >Depends on what you think is better. Honda's are not the most sophisticated
>pieces of machinery, but they sure are reliable...
> >> Who's were the most durable?
> >Honda
> >> Who sold the most ? ( Us & Worldwide )
> >Honda sold milions of the model 'Cub 50' worldwide.
> >> Are there any models that would be considered"collectable" ?
> >Oddly enough, Honda. You might think that the moped which was produced in
>these numbers, is not interesting enough to be a collectors item. Over here
>in the netherlands, it now is a collectors item...
>No one really cared for these mopeds in the days they were available en
>gros, but scince the importer stopped selling them (1978) they became more
>and more rare.
>It is amazing to see so many mopeds disapear in this short time. Strangly
>enough it's always the one which sold the best.
> > >Cheers,
> > > >Hans Hartman
> > > I agree with Hans. I have 2 honda 4-stroke mopeds, a PS50K (with pushrods)
and a C70Z-Z (perhaps not really a moped, but who care's?). It is true that
the honda mopeds are reliable. But they are only if you do not open your
gasthrottle at maximum when the engine is cold. Riding at maximum output
with a cold engine causes rapid wear to the cylinder and piston, especially
with a 4-stroke engine. This is the only negative aspect of the Honda
4-stroke mopeds.
In the Netherlands there is a Honda 4-stroke moped club dedicated to
honda 4-stroke mopeds. You could say that in some parts of the Netherlands
the honda 4-stroke mopeds are part of the youth culture. Most people like
them because of the sound they produce (especially without muffler) and the
way they look. A lot of people organise events. Sometimes people organise
"cannonball" like nightraces. Or they just organise tours at daylight. Once
a year there is the big Honda 4-stroke tour with sometimes more then 900
mopeds.
Greetings from Holland,
Wilmar Teunissen
p.s. There are some website's dedicated to the holy 4-stroke's. One of them
is: HTTP://UTOPIA.KNOWARE.NL/USERS/EVERMAAS
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:47:56 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Huvz@aol.com
Subject: Re: What would be considered "cream of the crop" ?
Thanks for the reply Hans. What about Derbi?
Scott H
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:44:04 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Huvz@aol.com
Subject: Re: '83 TRAC moped for parts
I will see about shipping, and let u know.
Scott H
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 17:00:05 -0500 (EST)
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: SPOT1717@aol.com
Subject: puch mopeds
im fixing up a 1980 puch maxi sport. it runs fine but the paint is bad.how
much do u think a body shop would charge for painting a puch.i also would
like the puch stickers.this moped has 2025 miles on it. HOW FAR CAN PUCHS GO.
my friends dad set the record for farthest trip on a moped in 1979from upper
michigan to washington state and back.THATS FAR.did puch ever make a saddle
bag for there mopeds or blinker light sets i need these producks so if u have
any info please email me,,, BYE see u in the
future.........................................
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 17:06:32 -0500 (EST)
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: SPOT1717@aol.com
Subject: moped forks
I WAS WONDERING WHAT KIND OF FLUID WENT INTO PUCH MOPED FORKS.ALSO NEED TO
KNOW HOW TO DRAIN IT THANKS BYE see u in the future
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 15:44:40 +0000
To: "'daugava@nothnbut.net'"
Subject: Subject Unknown
Moped News, I am working on a Honda Express '82 with my son. We would be
interested in finding info on to hot rod the moped. Are there any
modifications to exhaust or intake? Perhaps a slight cut to the head to
pick up the compression ratio? Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated.
Mike L
Mike Lesiecki, Director
Maricopa Advanced Technology Education Center (MATEC)
2323 W. 14th St., Suite 402
Tempe, AZ 85281
602-517 -8658 (voice)
- 8669 (fax)
lesiecki@maricopa.edu
http://matec.org
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 17:55:02 -0500
To: chrislo@cfw.com
From: chrislo@cfw.com
Subject: "Porting job "
You did say how the durability goes way down after tuning.
yup. that motor will make a totally different buzzing sound due to
higher rpms, air getting sucked in like a vacuum cleaner and the such
:0 you're gonna give it full thottle all the time too cuz the bike just
feels alive >:) brakes, vibration, tires, etc? forgetaboutit
you ever give your kids a model car? was it one fingerprint of wet paint
and glue afterward? well if you go a-porting with a nail file, a rasp,
and four hands simultaneously you can put that cylinder under the hood
of that model (if you can get it open):p while the exercise will teach
them a lot about engines there really isn't any room for impatience, no
margin for error, nor a quick-fix-kit to be had at kmart. but thats the
whole trouble with kids nowadays. they're always leaving fingerprints
everywhere!!!!!!!!! ;)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 18:05:22 -0500
To: chrislo@cfw.com
From: chrislo@cfw.com
Subject: hondas
This is the only negative aspect of the Honda
> 4-stroke mopeds.
my bud had a cb50j (as it was called in germany) which ran okay and
developed a chronically glowing exhaust with which he coolly lit his
smokes). the worst thing about this four stroke was that it was
incredibly lame on steep hills. i always had to take his passenger on my
zuendapp (1.6hp) so we'd all get up the mountain.
another little honda was the 50 dax (it looked like the honda 70 only
smaller) with that weird "endless" 3 speed. that was suitable for
puttering around the winnebago on the campground but nothing else.
anybody have one of these?
as far as real bikes go i would have to say the honda 750 four is one of
the most beautiful bikes ever made.
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 18:38:56 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Huvz@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fw: Honda Express
Have manual, will copy for $20.
Let me know .
Scott H>
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 18:35:12 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Huvz@aol.com
Subject: Re: What would be considered "cream of the crop" ?
Holland is moped paradise !
I've got to visit there and ride, ride, ride !
Can you operate mopeds on "bicycle only" roadways in Netherlands?
I was there once and noticed alot of nice bicycle roads, even in the city, (
traffic lites and all! ).
I am interested to know how they treat mopeds and bikes w/ motors too.
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 19:52:50 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: paltron@interlog.com
Subject: Re: What would be considered "cream of the crop" ?
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > p.s. There are some website's dedicated to the holy 4-stroke's. One of them
> is: HTTP://UTOPIA.KNOWARE.NL/USERS/EVERMAAS
The link is dead.
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 20:51:44 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: 6828t@bright.net
Subject: Re: "Porting job for speed"
Hi Chuck
Hey Chuck maybe it is not your son, Have you ever thought to ask your son to do a
project with you, maybe on his moped.. Porting might be the ticket. By the way what
do you need to do a porting job the right way, a list of tools and materials would
help the list a little don't you think.
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> *************************************************
> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:43:32 -0500
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: ckoerner@motown.lmco.com
> Subject: Re: "Porting job for speed"
> > Well stated Hans!
> The last thing we need is for society to help us even MORE! Are we all so lame
> nowadays we can't make any decisions on our own without more WARNINGS and
> CONTROLS??? Desides, the article DOES contain a warning at the end. I'd jump for
> joy if my son got off his ass and took the initiative to do such a complicated
> task...and I know he'd ask me for help if he needed it.
> Chuck
> > daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > > *************************************************
> > Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:25:26 +0100
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: "Porting job for speed"
> > > > Hey, Bob...
> > At 20:53 10-12-97 +0100, you wrote:
> > > > >From: 6828t@bright.net
> > >Subject: Re: "Porting job for speed"
> > > > > About porting your peds, I think that you should put a line or to in
> > >there about how much work doing this porting is, and a little stiff warning
> > >about how easy it is to mess up. Something like if you don't know what you
> > >are doing ( DON'T DO IT )!!!!! You have a lot of young kids out there that
> > >reads this posting that don't know what a screw driver is for, What you
> > >don't know can kill your moped and cost you more to fix, than the job will
> > >cost in the first place. ( SO IF YOU DON'T KNOW HOW DON'T DO IT ) less you
> > >have the money to replace all parts!!!!!! You make it sound to easy!!!!!!!!
> > > > How did you do it, Bob? I mean, you seem to know what you're talking about..
> > Did you wait till you were old and wise enough to tune your moped? All I
> > knew in my first tuning job was some hear-say how to tune it. On the
> > internet, they get a very nice manual with pictures and comprehensive
> > descriptions.
> > > > And of course they're going to screw up some cylinders, wreck some
> > crankshafts and destroy a few carburettors. No big deal... I for one did
> > destroy my share of expensive components, and I expect you did yours too...
> > Money and common sense is no object in tuning your engine..
> > Besides, I can't imagine anyone is going to experiment on a brand-new moped.
> > > > I understand, it is common practice in the US to patronize kids and warn
> > people not to dry their poodle dog in the microwave oven.
> > > > Let the children play...
> > > > Hans Hartman
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 20:48:10 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: CrUsHeR78@aol.com
Subject: Re: moped forks
there is no fluid in puch shocks. They just have a spring inside
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 21:35:21 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: GeeeTeee@aol.com
Subject: Re: moped mailing
In a message dated 97-12-12 12:01:38 EST, you write:
<< Odyssey >> I wish i could find more stuff on Odyssey mopeds on the internet. I can't
even find a picture. when i get a scanner I will put a picture of it on my
page. I will post my page address when it is moped friendly. : )
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 20:53:05 -0600
To: "Mailing List"
Subject: Re: moped mailing + Free Scanning!
> I wish i could find more stuff on Odyssey mopeds on the internet. I
can't
> even find a picture. when i get a scanner I will put a picture of it on
my
> page. I will post my page address when it is moped friendly. : )
If you'd like, you can send me copy of the picture by regular mail -
I have color scanner, so I can scan it for you and send you back the JPG
file.
My snail mail address is:
Andrei Zaitsev
New Motorized Bicycle Association
751 Aramis
Saint Louis, MO 63141
BTW, this offer is open to everybody - send me your moped pictures and I
will scan them!
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 21:58:31 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: paltron@interlog.com
Subject: Re: moped forks
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 20:48:10 EST
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: CrUsHeR78@aol.com
> Subject: Re: moped forks
> > there is no fluid in puch shocks. They just have a spring inside
....which is in an oilbath and that's what is leaking out when you remove
it.
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 21:03:28 -0600
To: "Mailing List"
Subject: Fw: Dynacycle
------- reply to
Howdy just wondering if youever heard of Dynacycle motorbikes?? Built
in1948-50 and are 165cc two strokes, I have one but need a Carter N series
carb #792s.
Do you have any leads or sugestions???
Thanks for anything you can toss my way!!!
Fred trout@slip.net
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------
Carb pictures were attached to this email - you can find them at:
/d/moped/dcarb.jpg
&
/d/moped/dcarb2.jpg
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 00:24:43 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: MaytagTwin@aol.com
Subject: Re: "Porting job for speed"
In a message dated 97-12-12 23:12:35 EST, you write:
<< Subj: Re: "Porting job for speed"
Date: 97-12-12 23:12:35 EST
From: daugava@nothnbut.net
Reply-to: daugava@nothnbut.net
To: daugava@nothnbut.net (Moped Mailing List)
*************************************************
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:18:08 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: CazTrain@aol.com
Subject: Re: "Porting job for speed"
could someone please explain "porting"???!!!!
>> Certainly,
Mopeds are, for the most part, two stroke engines. They use the piston as a
valve and it moves past holes or "ports" in the cylinder wall and allows
either exhaust or intake gases to move out or into the cylinder. "Porting"
means to enlarge or smooth these openings to allow the gas/air or exhaust gas
to flow more easily which means more will move. The result is the engine will
gain power from receiving a larger charge of fuel plus it will pump out the
exhaust more easily, saving power that would otherwise be wasted on pumping
exhaust. Assuming you achieve the porting without screwing it up, the
increased power can be directed toward the weakest link in your drive train,
perhaps the clutch, and will then fail you in some situation when you need it
most. Good luck.
Regards,
Ron Caroll
Nokesville, Virginia USA
maytagtwin@aol.com
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 09:51:09 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: gmoody@ibm.net
Subject: KUDOS!
Hi Y'all (again),
Many thanks to all who responded with suggestions for my "tranny woes".
Specifically, Andrew, thank you, you are a wonderful man and are
providing a much needed service with a refreshing degree of efficiency.
There is a great need of your advice and personal "connections" here in
Key West. There are thousands of mopeds here on the island. I will
refer my friends to you enthusiastically. Also, many thanks to
paltron@interlog.com for offering what proved to be the solution to my
dilemma. He has a HUGE ... knowledge of Tomos mopeds. (With access to
manufacturer service manuals at a reasonable cost.) I will contact you
first if (when) I need to fix something else.
Merci Beaucoup, (Y'all)
XXXOOO
Barry
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 10:55:12 -0600 (CST)
To: cyclepro@evansville.net
From: cyclepro@evansville.net
Subject: Porting for speed.
PUSHING the ENVELOPE CHASING the DEAMOND - Now your talkin my stuff.
The Proceedure that Hans wrote up was a good one for increasing the
efficency of any motor. We do similar things with Harleys. It is all a part
of what is called super tuning. The porting improves "volumemetric
efficency" which is another way of saying it improves cylinder fill. With
Hans proceedure the smoothing and radiusing of the ports helps the air flow
some but the shaving of the piston skirt and head that he describes is what
will really make the big differance. The shorter skirt allows the intake
and the exhaust part of the cycle to occur for a few degrees more of
crankshaft rotation which is ultimately effecting intake and exhaust
timing. On a 4 cycle this is done by cam timing. We have a 1200cc Harley
Sportster that we super tuned and the horse power went from 72 to 145 on
the DYNO. To get an idea how much you have helped your engine it is a good
idea to do a compression check before you take the engine down and one
after you put it back togather. This is your "cranking pressure". A 50 to
100% increase in this number is obtainable.
>From the driveability stand point you should get an all around improvement.
The decrease engine life occures when you are out on the edge of the
envelope chasin the DEAMON - thus making the higher revs. As piston
velosity increases so does ware. If you don't go out there the engine life
should stay the same. Piston velosity is calculated by stroke x rpm x 2 and
should be held to a maximum of 9600 FPS.
IF YOU GOT THE BALLS GO FOR IT IF YOU DON'T STAY ON THE PORCH.
GOTTA GO FOR NOW .....GREG.
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:02:31 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: 6828t@bright.net
Subject: Re: Porting for speed.
Hi Greg
Your posting is in good taste and well done. I think that Hans posting is a
good place to start with the subject of porting and tuning. They just need a
little more info as I said before. Porting and polishing is a big plus if done
right. Or it can be a costly mistake if not done right so adding some more info
could not hurt at all. And a little warning about time and cost if not done
right!
Thank You
Bob T.
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> *************************************************
> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 10:55:12 -0600 (CST)
> To: cyclepro@evansville.net
> From: cyclepro@evansville.net
> Subject: Porting for speed.
> > PUSHING the ENVELOPE CHASING the DEAMOND - Now your talkin my stuff.
> > The Proceedure that Hans wrote up was a good one for increasing the
> efficency of any motor. We do similar things with Harleys. It is all a part
> of what is called super tuning. The porting improves "volumemetric
> efficency" which is another way of saying it improves cylinder fill. With
> Hans proceedure the smoothing and radiusing of the ports helps the air flow
> some but the shaving of the piston skirt and head that he describes is what
> will really make the big differance. The shorter skirt allows the intake
> and the exhaust part of the cycle to occur for a few degrees more of
> crankshaft rotation which is ultimately effecting intake and exhaust
> timing. On a 4 cycle this is done by cam timing. We have a 1200cc Harley
> Sportster that we super tuned and the horse power went from 72 to 145 on
> the DYNO. To get an idea how much you have helped your engine it is a good
> idea to do a compression check before you take the engine down and one
> after you put it back togather. This is your "cranking pressure". A 50 to
> 100% increase in this number is obtainable.
> >From the driveability stand point you should get an all around improvement.
> The decrease engine life occures when you are out on the edge of the
> envelope chasin the DEAMON - thus making the higher revs. As piston
> velosity increases so does ware. If you don't go out there the engine life
> should stay the same. Piston velosity is calculated by stroke x rpm x 2 and
> should be held to a maximum of 9600 FPS.
> > IF YOU GOT THE BALLS GO FOR IT IF YOU DON'T STAY ON THE PORCH.
> GOTTA GO FOR NOW .....GREG.
>
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 15:06:54 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Huvz@aol.com
Subject: What is a Honda AERO 50?
The guy I spoke with says it has leg shields, and , by the description I
thimk it is a scooter. Anyone help me w/ info?
Scott h
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 15:04:35 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Huvz@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fw: Honda Express
Justin I have a Honda manual for the bike, it will take some time to
photocopy.
If you are intetrested let me know. NC-50
Scott H
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:46:45 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Huvz@aol.com
Subject: Re: finding used puch parts
I have plenty of Puch used parts, what do you need?
I am in northern Ohio,
Scott H
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 01:13:48 +0100
To:
Subject: Re: What would be considered "cream of the crop" ?
Goodevening,
At 18:35 12-12-97 EST,
> Holland is moped paradise !
Yes and no..
Mopeds here are restricted to about 28 M/ph and they have been target of
bad publicity the last year because everybody tunes their moped and ride
without helmets. Also they were accused of causing to many accidents.
Government as usual followed the press in giving us mopedeers a hard time
with a massive number of speedtraps.
Mopeds are very popular indeed, and are consequently stolen a lot..
Sunny side is, cardrivers are used to mopeds in traffic. This doesn't mean
they always see you coming, but nonetheless it's not as bad as in the US..
> I've got to visit there and ride, ride, ride !
Of course you do, stop by and we'll ride together!
> Can you operate mopeds on "bicycle only" roadways in Netherlands?
Well, yes you can and you MUST.. That would be nice if there were no
bicyclists on them. Bicyclists are protected by law, and behave accordingly.
They ride with three or four alongside each other, have no lighting of
significance, do not stop for red lights and only reluctantly give way to
mopeds.
The speed difference between a moped and a bicycle is to high for a narrow
lane like that.
I think in urban area's the moped must use the same area as cars and
motorcycles, and ride at speeds which are the same as cars. That would be
around 60-80 Km/h.
> I am interested to know how they treat mopeds and bikes w/ motors too.
What do you mean?
Cheers,
Hans Hartman
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 01:14:15 +0100
To:
Subject: Re: What would be considered "cream of the crop" ?
Hello Scott..
At 15:41 12-12-97 +0000, you wrote:
>Thanks for the reply Hans. What about Derbi?
Derbi wasn't sold here very much. We do sell two mopeds of the Derbi brand.
The off-the-road Senda and the Vamos scooter. The scooter was ugly and
didn't sell at all, engine was good though.
Senda is top of the bill; liquid cooled, 6 gears, nice looks, disc brake,
electronic ignition, oil injection, you name it..
If you talk about older Italians, they mostly have Franco Morini, Minarelli
or Piaggio engines which are all good. Italians couldn't get their wiring
done properly, and always had (and still do have) great difficulty in
chrome plating parts...
Design is often stunning beautifull and performance OK too..
Cheers,
Hans Hartman
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 18:26:43 -0600 (CST)
To: cyclepro@evansville.net
From: cyclepro@evansville.net
Subject: Super Tuning - Bob T's concerns
Bob - your comments concerning "costly mistakes, time & cost" are very
appropreiate and should be considered by all.
There is considerable knowledge and understanding of the opperating
principals of an engine needed are here to get optimum results. For example
on occasion when you make the ports bigger performance actually drops. In
part this is because opening it up reduces restriction thus reducing
velosity unless you increase intake plenum capacity. Hans'es program calls
for boring the carb and that should take care of it, but boring the carb is
a very deliecat proceedure that.... Well some of us got it - some of us
don't.
Great care must be exercised when doing the work or you can ruin an
expensive part. If you don't know where to get an affordable replacement
and you less than 100% confident about what you are doing than may be you
souldn't do it.
In Hans'es paper he went to the trouble to hollow out the INSIDE of the
piston. I presume he does this to lighten it up. This has got to be one of
the finer points and I don't think you would be able to tell the differance
without a stop watch or a DYNO. It would be real easy for me to screw the
pooch here. Also I have some reservation about how this is affecting engine
balance. When we balance a Harley crankshaft we have a fairly elaborate
process where we weigh all of the rotating and the reciprocating parts &
perform several calculations to arrive at how much weight to cut out of, or
add to the flywheels. The result is our rotating mass and our reciprocating
mass is within a 1 to 3 gram range of each other. This pays off in reduced
vibration and reduced stress on all of the parts. This is a common
practice on large high performance engines and I think it would be
appropriate to do something similar on a moped engine as well. But then you
get into weather it is worth the trouble or not. If you are just
considering the economic benifit forget it. You'de probably do better
picken up aluminum cans....but if you are in pursuit of that "Demon" well
you better get to work.
Someone else was concerned about the clutch holding up and they are right.
It is under more stress and will fail sooner. If this becomes a
significant operational problem you will have to beef up the clutch. Extra
plates stronger springs etc.
The bottom line is you got to love what you are doing for it to be worth
your while. Some guys have "NO NEED FOR SPEED". To others like myself I
won't quit until I have Hans in my rear view mirror eaten my dust. Unless
you aren't the lead dog the scenery never changes so I'll take the POINT,
Thank you! ...........Greg Dougan.
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 01:28:51 +0100
To:
Subject: Re: What would be considered "cream of the crop" ?
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: daugava@nothnbut.net
Onderwerp: Re: What would be considered "cream of the crop" ?
>*************************************************
>Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 19:52:50 -0500
>To: daugava@nothnbut.net
>From: paltron@interlog.com
>Subject: Re: What would be considered "cream of the crop" ?
> > >daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
>> >> p.s. There are some website's dedicated to the holy 4-stroke's. One of
them
>> is: HTTP://UTOPIA.KNOWARE.NL/USERS/EVERMAAS
>The link is dead.
>
tried lowercase ?
> >
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 14:45:46 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: AaronM428@aol.com
Subject: Re: tranny woes
In a message dated 97-12-11 18:52:24 EST, you write:
<< It "slipped" quite
noticeably when I first tested it, but I thought that it was due to low
level of transmission fluid. EASY, I thought, but when I filled it up
(to just below the top, as instructed by the manual) it stopped working
completely. >>
With what kind of fluid? Anything other than Type A Siffix A fluid can cause
the problem you describe. Plus, it is supposed to be just below the "bore
hole", not the fill hole, overfilling can also cause clutch slippage.
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 14:48:03 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: AaronM428@aol.com
Subject: Re: "Porting job for speed"
In a message dated 97-12-11 20:05:10 EST, you write:
<< I understand, it is common practice in the US to patronize kids and warn
people not to dry their poodle dog in the microwave oven.
Let the children play... >>
With our US lawyers, if you don't warn people, they can sue you.
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 15:01:17 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: AaronM428@aol.com
Subject: Re: What would be considered "cream of the crop" ?
In a message dated 97-12-14 05:30:31 EST, you write:
<< In the Netherlands there is a Honda 4-stroke moped club dedicated to
honda 4-stroke mopeds. You could say that in some parts of the Netherlands
the honda 4-stroke mopeds are part of the youth culture. Most people like
them because of the sound they produce (especially without muffler) >>
As opposed to a Honda 4-stroke moped club dedicated to say, Tomos 2-strokes?
;-) Two-cycles make nice sounds too, personally, I prefer a low RPM 2-cycle
sound to low RPM 4-cycle sound. (Yes, I still prefer the 2-cycle sound at
high RPM.) Plus, 2-cycles make that nice smoke when they start, they smell
better that 4-cycles, and they are just quirky enough without making the owner
seem certifiable.
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 15:05:23 -0500 (EST)
To: Moped Mailing List
Subject: Re: What is a Honda AERO 50?
On Mon, 15 Dec 1997 Huvz@aol.com wrote:
> The guy I spoke with says it has leg shields, and , by the description I
> thimk it is a scooter. Anyone help me w/ info?
Yeah, it's a two-stroke scooter. I have some very basic info on my Honda
scooter page about them ...
~ Danny ~
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
syracuse ska!!
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 15:14:29 -0500 (EST)
To: Moped Mailing List
Subject: Re: "Porting job for speed"
On Mon, 15 Dec 1997 AaronM428@aol.com wrote:
> << I understand, it is common practice in the US to patronize kids and warn
> people not to dry their poodle dog in the microwave oven.
> > Let the children play... >> > > With our US lawyers, if you don't warn people, they can sue you.
Actually, a more accurate statement would be that our legal system in the
US reflects the widespread American notion that when something bad
happens, it must be someone else's fault and they should pay dearly.
~ Danny ~
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
syracuse ska!!
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 15:47:18 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: paltron@interlog.com
Subject: Re: What is a Honda AERO 50?
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 15:06:54 EST
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: Huvz@aol.com
> Subject: What is a Honda AERO 50?
> > The guy I spoke with says it has leg shields, and , by the description I
> thimk it is a scooter. Anyone help me w/ info?
> Scott h
The Aero is DEFINITELY a scooter. Small wheels (barely street legal in
Canada, must be the minimum, 10" dia). It's a toy at best.
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 19:33:59 -0500
To: chrislo@cfw.com
From: chrislo@cfw.com
Subject: "italo-cream of the crop" ?
Italians couldn't get their wiring
> done properly, and always had (and still do have) great difficulty in
> chrome plating parts...
the headlight on myfriend's aspes "motocross" bike was so dim he
could'nt ride at night; no "juice".
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:12:58 -0500
To: chrislo@cfw.com
From: chrislo@cfw.com
Subject: sue eeee
> Actually, a more accurate statement would be that our legal system in the US reflects the widespread American notion that when something bad
> happens, it must be someone else's fault and they should pay dearly.
> amen. when i got hit by a car on a bike way to big for me (my mother
wouldn't buy me one so i got my cousin's wrecks; he's seven years older)
i was grounded for a week. i thought the hurt and humiliation was enough
(my 3rd grade "honey" was watching; no samaritan efffect happened) but
no... others would see this is the chance of a lifetime to get what they
"deserved". thats pretty sorry.
on the other hand when my sister fell out of a nyc taxi cab (hey, we're
peasants fresh off the boat) my mom could've at least asked for help
with the doctor bills. sis was just scratched up. unfortunately no
lasting trauma or repressed memory seems to exist, no urge to kill the
hamster. hot coffee in the lap is far worse, i've heard.
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:41:06 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Kbry08@aol.com
Subject: New moped
hey--i have a question?--i am looking for a new moped preferably honda or
yamaha but it really dosen't matter---i would like to know what are some of
the best out there and what features would be nice[ like can i get a stereo?
etc...] also which have a good resale value becase i am getting a car in a few
years---
just give me a crash course of the field out there
thanks--
todd
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:12:48 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: MaytagTwin@aol.com
Subject: Re: "Porting job for speed"
In a message dated 97-12-16 20:05:59 EST, you write:
<< people not to dry their poodle dog in the microwave oven.
> > Let the children play... >> > > With our US lawyers, if you don't warn people, they can sue you.
Actually, a more accurate statement would be that our legal system in the
US reflects the widespread American notion that when something bad
>> I always thought the poodle should go into the clothes dryer. Gentle cycle,
of course.
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 05:21:13 GMT
To:
Subject: Re: finding used puch parts
On Mon, 15 Dec 1997 15:22:30 -0800, you wrote:
>*************************************************
>Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:46:45 EST
>To: daugava@nothnbut.net
>From: Huvz@aol.com
>Subject: Re: finding used puch parts
> > >I have plenty of Puch used parts, what do you need?
>I am in northern Ohio,
>Scott H
> Both chain covers for an "80 Puch Maxi.
A new horn
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 01:10:37 -0500 (EST)
To: Moped Mailing List
Subject: Re: sue eeee
On Tue, 16 Dec 1997 chrislo@cfw.com wrote:
> hot coffee in the lap is far worse, i've heard.
Yeah, but that story has now taken on the proportions of an urban myth.
The woman was hospitalized with serious burns that required skin grafts,
McDonalds knew their coffee was hotter than needed (so it'd keep hot
longer than the competition) and that many people had been seriously
burned by it, though not as bad as this woman. It's also true that the
jury came back with a large verdict of mostly punitive damages (the ones
meant to teach a lesson and that upset everyone that hears about it on the
evening news).
However, the judge severely reduced that on appeal and the woman finally
just got her actual medical bills (which McDonalds had refused to pay
originally because it would appear they were admitting wrongdoing). Our
system is surpentine, but still largely works, anecdotal evidence
notwithstanding.
~ Danny ~
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
syracuse ska!!
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 19:18:09 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: SUPRDAVE@aol.com
Subject: Re: What is a Honda AERO 50?
In a message dated 97-12-16 15:29:05 EST, you write:
> Subject: What is a Honda AERO 50?
> > > The guy I spoke with says it has leg shields, and , by the description I
> thimk it is a scooter. Anyone help me w/ info?
> Scott h
I have one of these machines! it's a plastic bodied 50cc motor scooter. it's
built kinda like the old vespa and lambretti scooters in that you sit on a
long seat, and your feet rest on the floorboards; you dont straddle it like a
motorcycle. i think mine is a 1985 model, which means it only has electric
start. i have no kick start when my battery goes low. it also has lights,
horn, 10 inch tires, oil injection, two storage areas, auto transmission,
cantilever front suspension and a rear rack. the plastic on mine is beat up a
little, but runs great. i had to clean out the exhaust pipe and pull the
flywheel to clean the rust off the magnetic surfaces when i first got it. even
though it's 50cc, i really doubt it qualifies as a moped though.
theoretically, a license should be required even though it cannot go any
faster than 35 mph stock. if anyone has questions about it, i have a shop
manual for it. overpriced parts are still available at your friendly honda
dealer.
david
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 02:14:30 -0500
To: laurinj@videotron.ca
From: laurinj@videotron.ca
Subject: Re: finding used puch parts
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:46:45 EST
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: Huvz@aol.com
> Subject: Re: finding used puch parts
> > I have plenty of Puch used parts, what do you need?
> I am in northern Ohio,
> Scott H
I have some too....
new and used
Jean-Sébastien
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 04:14:44 -0500 (EST)
To: Danny
Subject: Re: What is a Honda AERO 50?
On Tue, 16 Dec 1997 paltron@interlog.com wrote:
> The Aero is DEFINITELY a scooter.
Yep. There have been several sizes, including 50, 80 & 125cc.
> Small wheels (barely street legal in Canada, must be the minimum, 10"
> dia).
I wouldn't call them especially small, since nearly all scooters have 10"
wheels also. Older scooter models had 8" wheels.
> It's a toy at best.
OUCH!!!! If that's true, then what do you call MOPEDS!?!?
At least the Aero/Lead 50 is easily modified, because it's a standard
two-stroke. With some tinkering, this "toy" can go 60mph or better!
~ Danny ~
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
syracuse ska!!
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 23:49:01 -0800
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: proof@idt.net
Subject: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
Hi all. I just joined the moped mailing list and I love it as I do my
Tomos. I am wodering if any of you could share your experiences with
getting the 70cc job done on the Targa. I am considering doing it but
it's pretty expensive. Do you think it is worth it? I am mainly
interested in better acceleration from a dead stop and more hill climbing
power. I am not too concerned about top speed. I can already get 48 mph
with just the biturbo pipe. So what I am wodering is: did you get much
better acceleration? By how much did your gas mileage go down? Will
having the 70cc make my engine last longer? - i am often doing 45mph to
keep up with traffic on some roads and i figure at that given speed the
engine will be working less with the 70cc - true?? I don't know too much
about engines. Did the 70cc job cause any other problems? Is the bike
louder with the 70 cc? Any other info/impressions would be greatly
appreciated.
Also i was reading some of the old messages in the mailing list and i was
shocked to see that someone needed to rebuild their engine after only
13,000 miles. Is this the norm for mopeds? I was counting on mine lasting
for a couple hundred thousand miles. If the moped only lasts 13,000 miles
then operating a moped is not as cheap as it seems. I am very interested
in the per mile cost of moped operation. I have calculated my cost here
in the US at 5 cents per mile - thats counting every conceivable cost
realted to the moped. But maybe i am being too optimistic here. Anyone
else done a calculation on this. I only have 1500 miles on my tomos so i
guess i dont really know what's going on with costs yet.
Also, for all you pilots in NJ - and there seem to be a disproportionate
number of you - I bought my bike at a well known dealer in Bergen county
and at first i was very happy with them. Then, when i brought the bike in
for the recommended 300 mile check-up, they tried to charge me $113 for
it!!!! Let's see that's like 35 cents per mile. I could operate a
ferrari cheaper than that. I will never set foot in that dealer again.
Alot of this dealer's customers are rich kids with money to burn - the
kind that sell their bikes as soon as they get their driver permit. Who
is the best dealer in NJ/NY area?? Someone honest.
Ok enough for now. I would greatly appreciate any responses. Ciao.
Tony
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 20:06:56 +0100
To:
Subject: Re: Super Tuning - Bob T's concerns
Hello mopedeers,,
At 15:22 15-12-97 -0800, Greg Dougan wrote:
>Subject: Super Tuning - Bob T's concerns
>Bob - your comments concerning "costly mistakes, time & cost" are very
>appropreiate and should be considered by all.
So you guys really think I misjudged the abilities of US youngsters?
I think anybody with common sense knows that if you do things wrong, it
will have financial consequences..
>There is considerable knowledge and understanding of the opperating
>principals of an engine needed are here to get optimum results. For example
>on occasion when you make the ports bigger performance actually drops. In
Only if done in access, mopeds always have (considerable) tolerance in
that. They are specially designed to last with speeds of 45-50 Km. Most
mopeds I know of can do 60-65 easily.
Enlarging in- and outlet port will *always* result in more power.
>part this is because opening it up reduces restriction thus reducing
>velosity unless you increase intake plenum capacity. Hans'es program calls
>for boring the carb and that should take care of it, but boring the carb is
>a very deliecat proceedure that.... Well some of us got it - some of us
>don't.
Well, over here we always bought ourself a larger carb., but I thought such
things were not available in the US. And it really isn't that difficult to
drill up a carb. if you handle your drill straight.
>Great care must be exercised when doing the work or you can ruin an
>expensive part. If you don't know where to get an affordable replacement
>and you less than 100% confident about what you are doing than may be you
>souldn't do it.
That's an open door...
>In Hans'es paper he went to the trouble to hollow out the INSIDE of the
>piston. I presume he does this to lighten it up. This has got to be one of
>the finer points and I don't think you would be able to tell the differance
>without a stop watch or a DYNO. It would be real easy for me to screw the
>pooch here. Also I have some reservation about how this is affecting engine
Can you eleborate on that? What does pooch mean?
Your presumtion is right, it is done to loose weight and if you watch
closely, you'll see that the inside is polished too.. This sure helps flow
a lot on two-strokes.
>balance. When we balance a Harley crankshaft we have a fairly elaborate
>process where we weigh all of the rotating and the reciprocating parts &
>perform several calculations to arrive at how much weight to cut out of, or
>add to the flywheels. The result is our rotating mass and our reciprocating
>mass is within a 1 to 3 gram range of each other. This pays off in reduced
>vibration and reduced stress on all of the parts. This is a common
Reduced vibration on a Hardly means that your teeth won't shake out of
their sockets anymore? :-)
There is very little to balance in the piston if you only have one...
>practice on large high performance engines and I think it would be
>appropriate to do something similar on a moped engine as well. But then you
>get into weather it is worth the trouble or not. If you are just
>considering the economic benifit forget it. You'de probably do better
>picken up aluminum cans....but if you are in pursuit of that "Demon" well
>you better get to work.
Moped crankshafts could always do with some additional balancing and
polishing, but I thought this was to way off for people at home. I know
some of my tips are a bit far-fetched, but my posting wasn't a tutorial
how-to, just a lead for possible things to do and an attempt to lighten up
the darkness about what tuning is about. Most of you will be satisfied with
just an inlet and outlet job, larger carburettor and expansion exhaust pipe.
>Someone else was concerned about the clutch holding up and they are right.
>It is under more stress and will fail sooner. If this becomes a
>significant operational problem you will have to beef up the clutch. Extra
>plates stronger springs etc.
Most clutches are up to their task, even when the moped is tuned. Tomos
clutches are not the best around, and just good enough for the normal
performance. Peugeot, Puch Maxi and Vespa can hold some more. It all
depends of course in how much more power you managed to get from your ped.
As long as you don't exceed the 2 KW, I see no problems.
>The bottom line is you got to love what you are doing for it to be worth
>your while. Some guys have "NO NEED FOR SPEED". To others like myself I
>won't quit until I have Hans in my rear view mirror eaten my dust. Unless
I'll ride the snot right of your nose anytime with my (STANDARD) Honda....
Buying and tuning a Harley buys me two Honda VTR 1000's over here :-)
Cheers,
Hans Hartman
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 20:13:07 +0100
To:
Subject: Re: "Porting job for speed"
Hello,
At 15:22 15-12-97 -0800, AaronM428@aol.com wrote:
>*************************************************
>Subject: Re: "Porting job for speed"
> > >In a message dated 97-12-11 20:05:10 EST, you write:
> ><< I understand, it is common practice in the US to patronize kids and warn
> people not to dry their poodle dog in the microwave oven.
> > Let the children play... >> > >With our US lawyers, if you don't warn people, they can sue you.
I know, we always have lot's of fun reading about these mad law-suits like
the poodle dog. A friend who works at a forklift factory, told me the
hilarious story about how they got sued because they didn't put a sticker
on the left-hand side of the forklift, that its not really a goor idea to
climb in over the gearshifter!!
There are never enough stickers and warnings to keep morons from being just
that; morons...
Well, let the the lawyers come...:-)
Cheers,
Hans Hartman
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:13:46 -0500 (EST)
To: Moped Mailing List
Subject: USA Motobecane Club
Just passing this along, but it appears that someone is organizing a USA
Motobecane Club. Details should be on the website below ...
Motobecane Web Page: http://weber.u.washington.edu/~shortwav/moby
~ Danny ~
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
syracuse ska!!
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:18:11 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: AaronM428@aol.com
Subject: Re: "Porting job for speed"
In a message dated 97-12-16 20:05:59 EST, you write:
<< Actually, a more accurate statement would be that our legal system in the
US reflects the widespread American notion that when something bad
happens, it must be someone else's fault and they should pay dearly. >>
Ah, the, "It can't possibly be my fault that I dropped that steaming hot
coffee in my lap. All I did was drive with it between my legs." mentality.
Personally I am surprised that the lady didn't sue the car company for not
having cup holders. Oh well, I suppose there are worse places to be.
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:30:55 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: AaronM428@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
In a message dated 97-12-17 15:11:29 EST, you write:
<< Also i was reading some of the old messages in the mailing list and i was
shocked to see that someone needed to rebuild their engine after only
13,000 miles. Is this the norm for mopeds? I was counting on mine lasting
for a couple hundred thousand miles. If the moped only lasts 13,000 miles
then operating a moped is not as cheap as it seems. I am very interested
in the per mile cost of moped operation. I have calculated my cost here
in the US at 5 cents per mile - thats counting every conceivable cost
realted to the moped. But maybe i am being too optimistic here. Anyone
else done a calculation on this. I only have 1500 miles on my tomos so i
guess i dont really know what's going on with costs yet. >>
You have to remember that most mopeds are not built for primary
transportation. It would take me 26 years (at my current rate) to reach
13,000 miles, if I get 5,000-6,000 miles I will be ecstatic. Additionally,
air-cooled engines tend to wear faster because of more heat. This is not that
much of a problem when moving along at speed, but I would warn against idling
for more the 3-4 minutes or running in slow city traffic because then not
enough air moves past the cylinder to cool it. It does seem that the engine
should get more miles (especially since 2-strokes never have to worry about
dirty oil). About that 300 mile service, you didn't do it yourself? I have
1,000 kilometers (approx. 500 miles) on my Targa LX and have done all service
myself (well I did get some help from my neighbor when the carb got clogged.)
What did the dealer tell you needed to be done at this service?
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:30:55 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: AaronM428@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
In a message dated 97-12-17 15:11:29 EST, you write:
<< Also i was reading some of the old messages in the mailing list and i was
shocked to see that someone needed to rebuild their engine after only
13,000 miles. Is this the norm for mopeds? I was counting on mine lasting
for a couple hundred thousand miles. If the moped only lasts 13,000 miles
then operating a moped is not as cheap as it seems. I am very interested
in the per mile cost of moped operation. I have calculated my cost here
in the US at 5 cents per mile - thats counting every conceivable cost
realted to the moped. But maybe i am being too optimistic here. Anyone
else done a calculation on this. I only have 1500 miles on my tomos so i
guess i dont really know what's going on with costs yet. >>
You have to remember that most mopeds are not built for primary
transportation. It would take me 26 years (at my current rate) to reach
13,000 miles, if I get 5,000-6,000 miles I will be ecstatic. Additionally,
air-cooled engines tend to wear faster because of more heat. This is not that
much of a problem when moving along at speed, but I would warn against idling
for more the 3-4 minutes or running in slow city traffic because then not
enough air moves past the cylinder to cool it. It does seem that the engine
should get more miles (especially since 2-strokes never have to worry about
dirty oil). About that 300 mile service, you didn't do it yourself? I have
1,000 kilometers (approx. 500 miles) on my Targa LX and have done all service
myself (well I did get some help from my neighbor when the carb got clogged.)
What did the dealer tell you needed to be done at this service?
Date: 17 Dec 1997 13:18:52 -0800
To: "daugava@nothnbut.net"
Subject: USA Motobecane Club
To @REPLY
-Bill Metteer
To WILMET WILLIAM R METTEER From @INET (HO) Type N 12-17-97 1:08p
FROM: daugava@nothnbut.net
*************************************************
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:13:46 -0500 (EST)
To: Moped Mailing List
Subject: USA Motobecane Club
Just passing this along, but it appears that someone is organizing a USA Motobecane Club. Details should be on the website below ...
Motobecane Web Page: http://weber.u.washington.edu/~shortwav/moby
~ Danny ~
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ syracuse ska!!
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 16:05:00 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: AaronM428@aol.com
Subject: Re: Super Tuning - Bob T's concerns
In a message dated 97-12-17 15:49:28 EST, you write:
<< Most clutches are up to their task, even when the moped is tuned. Tomos
clutches are not the best around, and just good enough for the normal
performance. Peugeot, Puch Maxi and Vespa can hold some more. It all
depends of course in how much more power you managed to get from your ped.
As long as you don't exceed the 2 KW, I see no problems. >>
Are there "beefed-up" clutches for Tomos Mopeds? I shoud think that somewhere
there is a stronger clutch that will fit a Tomos. (Please, please, please God
say there is a clutch that can handle 4+ hp for a Tomos. :-) ).
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 16:38:47 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: SUPRDAVE@aol.com
Subject: Re: What is a Honda AERO 50?
I'd like to know what mods could be done to an aero 50 to increase speed. the
fastest i've ever gotten was 35mph, and with a torque converter transmission,
i dont think its possible to change gear ratios or anything like that.
In a message dated 97-12-17 15:11:46 EST, you write:
> On Tue, 16 Dec 1997 paltron@interlog.com wrote:
> > > The Aero is DEFINITELY a scooter.
> > Yep. There have been several sizes, including 50, 80 & 125cc.
> > > Small wheels (barely street legal in Canada, must be the minimum, 10"
> > dia).
> > I wouldn't call them especially small, since nearly all scooters have 10"
> wheels also. Older scooter models had 8" wheels.
> > > It's a toy at best.
> > OUCH!!!! If that's true, then what do you call MOPEDS!?!?
> > At least the Aero/Lead 50 is easily modified, because it's a standard
> two-stroke. With some tinkering, this "toy" can go 60mph or better!
> > ~ Danny ~
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:40:30 -0400 (EDT)
To: <199712172002.OAA17371@mail.valuenet.net> From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
I've had good experiences with the following dealers:
Steve's Mopeds ....
and
Mickey's Mopeds
everybody else didn't have what I wanted or told me I was silly to look
for PUCHs.
Michael Liu
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 22:00:04 +0100
To:
Subject: Re: Super Tuning - Bob T's concerns
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: daugava@nothnbut.net
Onderwerp: Super Tuning - Bob T's concerns
>*************************************************
>Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 18:26:43 -0600 (CST)
>To: cyclepro@evansville.net
>From: cyclepro@evansville.net
>Subject: Super Tuning - Bob T's concerns
> > you wrote:
When we balance a Harley crankshaft we have a fairly elaborate
process where we weigh all of the rotating and the reciprocating parts &
perform several calculations to arrive at how much weight to cut out of, or
add to the flywheels. The result is our rotating mass and our reciprocating
mass is within a 1 to 3 gram range of each other. This pays off in reduced
vibration and reduced stress on all of the parts. This is a common
practice on large high performance engines and I think it would be
appropriate to do something similar on a moped engine as well. But then you
get into weather it is worth the trouble or not.
>Thank you! ...........Greg Dougan.
> > > Hi Greg,
What formula do you use for matching the contra weight (flywheels) ?
does is ruleout the variing rotational force in the shaft by the piston ? by
compensation or assument ?
please info..
ps how about dead point weight balance?
does it use a constant for the piston velocity or the real one...
i have no formula , for that part i always did it just on the guess ...
or standard material (always good, but not fast enoough)
Bye, Peter Staal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Email: staal@concepts.nl
Home: http://home.concepts.nl/~staal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:37:16 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Huvz@aol.com
Subject: Re: What is a Honda AERO 50?
Oh man! 60 mph???
Not with this kid riding it on 10" wheels.
I suppose I would sell it now for $100. A little beat up, fairly
complete, engine stuck. Sounds like a bargain, right???? ( Ohio )
Thanks Scott H
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:56:00 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Huvz@aol.com
Subject: Re: What would be considered "cream of the crop" ?
When I say "bicycles with motors, I am reffering to those "add-on" motors you
can put on a bicycle. Like a 35cc Bumble Bike motor you would wount over the
rear tire.
Is there any difference in the classification of these, and mopeds ( have
pedals, but not really designed to be pedaled for any distance )
Thanks for the info on bike roads, sounds great compared to the US version
of "take your life in your own hands" moped riding.
How old do you have to be to ride a moped in Holland? Can you haul a
passenger legally? Can u ride the bike roads at nite?
I would like to take holiday in Holland, and may stay near Eindhoven. Would
that be a good area for biking? mopeding?
Thanks Scott H
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 19:12:39 -0500
To: chrislo@cfw.com
From: chrislo@cfw.com
Subject: Re: sue eeee
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
Our system is surpentine, but still largely works, anecdotal evidence
> notwithstanding.
> > ~ Danny ~
my point is that if i'd had a smaller bike i'd've landed under the
galaxie, not on its hood. dead or a veggie, this would've happenend: the
driver would've been sued, the "concerned folks" would've cut down the
trees, blamed my bike, hitler and el nino, and put my parents thru a lot
of trouble.
i don't believe anyone would've ever asked me what i was thinking at the
time, namely nothing. i was ogling that hot babe, jan. plain and simple.
it was my fault. but who cares? i was just a kid, right? no, i was being
stupid. my mom saw that tight away. i learned so much from that (e.g.
that girls are trouble)
so we've discussed the pro and cons of helmets. i say if you wanna fire
all of your guns at once and explode into space like a true nature
child, you're all alone. crack your head you pay for it yourself, chum.
as far as coffee in the lap thats beyond sub-mongoloid. a lady
successfully sued our local wendys for a lid not tightened properly. and
she looked just like those all ladies who found syringes in their
pepsis.
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 19:28:50 -0500
To: chrislo@cfw.com
From: chrislo@cfw.com
Subject: 70cc bore kit experiences
I can already get 48 mph> with just the biturbo pipe.
i was> shocked to see that someone needed to rebuild their engine after
only> 13,000 miles.
lets do some more moped math:
13,000/50=260 hours in the saddle/24 hrs= you'd have to ride almost ten
days straight at top speed before your bike broke down - maybe. (do it
and you'll miss xmas).
you have 1500 miles on it now; you've got ten times that same distance
to go yet. if you've been puttering around for, say, 2 months now, you
got another 18 to go. theoretically. where will you be then?
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 19:14:50 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Huvz@aol.com
Subject: Tohatsu, anyone?
Anyone know (anything) about Tohatsu 50cc bikes?
Was there ever a moped or scooter powered by the Tohatsu engine?
I have gotten hooked on gathering, fixing and riding "obscure" or "wierd"
cycles that are 100cc or below. Does Tohatsu fit the category?
Thanks Scott H.
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:35:11 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Huvz@aol.com
Subject: Re: What is a Honda AERO 50?
Thanks for the reply.
I may be interested in the manual, and any used parts If anyone has 'em.
It will be a few weeks before I know what I need for it.
Scott H
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 22:33:18 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: SUPRDAVE@aol.com
Subject: Re: What is a Honda AERO 50?
In a message dated 97-12-17 20:54:34 EST, you write:
> > Oh man! 60 mph???
> Not with this kid riding it on 10" wheels.
> I suppose I would sell it now for $100. A little beat up, fairly
> complete, engine stuck. Sounds like a bargain, right???? ( Ohio )
> Thanks Scott H
> depends on how the motor is stuck. if the cylinder is gouged, a replacement
block/sleeve might be needed else you can just bore it out and get a new
piston. if that plastic is good, its worth $100. bear in mind ANY replacement
parts are way expensive. i think its supposed to have a title too.
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 23:31:49 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: DWCarpenter@webtv.net
Subject: Re: New moped
New mopeds......try a Kinetic or a Tomos. Thats all I can find anywhere
near where I live. I think Kinetic has something to do with Honda, or
at least used to.
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:25:25 -0800
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: proof@idt.net
Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:30:55 EST
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: AaronM428@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
> > In a message dated 97-12-17 15:11:29 EST, you write:
> > << Also i was reading some of the old messages in the mailing list and i was
> shocked to see that someone needed to rebuild their engine after only
> 13,000 miles. Is this the norm for mopeds? I was counting on mine lasting
> for a couple hundred thousand miles. If the moped only lasts 13,000 miles
> then operating a moped is not as cheap as it seems. I am very interested
> in the per mile cost of moped operation. I have calculated my cost here
> in the US at 5 cents per mile - thats counting every conceivable cost
> realted to the moped. But maybe i am being too optimistic here. Anyone
> else done a calculation on this. I only have 1500 miles on my tomos so i
> guess i dont really know what's going on with costs yet. >> > > You have to remember that most mopeds are not built for primary
> transportation. It would take me 26 years (at my current rate) to reach
> 13,000 miles, if I get 5,000-6,000 miles I will be ecstatic. Additionally,
> air-cooled engines tend to wear faster because of more heat. This is not that
> much of a problem when moving along at speed, but I would warn against idling
> for more the 3-4 minutes or running in slow city traffic because then not
> enough air moves past the cylinder to cool it. It does seem that the engine
> should get more miles (especially since 2-strokes never have to worry about
> dirty oil). About that 300 mile service, you didn't do it yourself? I have
> 1,000 kilometers (approx. 500 miles) on my Targa LX and have done all service
> myself (well I did get some help from my neighbor when the carb got clogged.)
> What did the dealer tell you needed to be done at this service?Ok, wow well I am using my moped much more heavily. I intend to take it
on long distance tours - i.e., backroad riding/camping across the country
and all over canada. Am I crazy? Can a moped simply not handle this? My
main point is that if you have to buy a new moped every 13,000 miles then
it's actually not a very cheap form of transport. Just what does
"rebuilding" the engine mean - how much does it cost? Well I have to
qualify what i just said. Here in NJ I could buy a new moped every year
with the money i am not spending on car insurance. Ciao
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:33:49 -0800
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: proof@idt.net
Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:30:55 EST
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: AaronM428@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
> > In a message dated 97-12-17 15:11:29 EST, you write:
> > << Also i was reading some of the old messages in the mailing list and i was
> shocked to see that someone needed to rebuild their engine after only
> 13,000 miles. Is this the norm for mopeds? I was counting on mine lasting
> for a couple hundred thousand miles. If the moped only lasts 13,000 miles
> then operating a moped is not as cheap as it seems. I am very interested
> in the per mile cost of moped operation. I have calculated my cost here
> in the US at 5 cents per mile - thats counting every conceivable cost
> realted to the moped. But maybe i am being too optimistic here. Anyone
> else done a calculation on this. I only have 1500 miles on my tomos so i
> guess i dont really know what's going on with costs yet. >> > > You have to remember that most mopeds are not built for primary
> transportation. It would take me 26 years (at my current rate) to reach
> 13,000 miles, if I get 5,000-6,000 miles I will be ecstatic. Additionally,
> air-cooled engines tend to wear faster because of more heat. This is not that
> much of a problem when moving along at speed, but I would warn against idling
> for more the 3-4 minutes or running in slow city traffic because then not
> enough air moves past the cylinder to cool it. It does seem that the engine
> should get more miles (especially since 2-strokes never have to worry about
> dirty oil). About that 300 mile service, you didn't do it yourself? I have
> 1,000 kilometers (approx. 500 miles) on my Targa LX and have done all service
> myself (well I did get some help from my neighbor when the carb got clogged.)
> What did the dealer tell you needed to be done at this service?
Well that is what i wanted to know. The dude went down the list of stuff - 90% of it was
stuff even a mechanical illiterate like me could have done. I felt like i'd been really
had. Since then i've done everything myself and will not bother with bringing it in for
these "checkups". I think Tomos is shooting themselves in the foot telling people to
bring the bike in for service every 1000 miles. Like I said, it would be cheaper to
operate a ferrari. The one thing they did which i didnt get was they "dropped the carb".
Someone enighten me on that. The salt in the wound was that the dude who worked on my
bike was their part-time after school mechanic. Now, he might be a brilliant mechanic
but for that price i should have gotten someone more confidence inspiring.
Ok so heat is the main reason these engines dont last long? If i am not mistaken, the
Volkswagen Beetle is an air cooled engine - why do they last forever and a day?
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 01:47:56 -0500 (EST)
To: Moped Mailing List
Subject: Re: "Porting job for speed"
On Wed, 17 Dec 1997 AaronM428@aol.com wrote:
> Ah, the, "It can't possibly be my fault that I dropped that steaming hot
> coffee in my lap. All I did was drive with it between my legs."
> mentality. Personally I am surprised that the lady didn't sue the car
> company for not having cup holders. Oh well, I suppose there are worse
> places to be.
Actually, it wasn't spilling hot coffee per se that triggered the lawsuit.
It was the abnormally high temperature that led to her needing skingrafts.
Apparently, McDonalds had far & away the hottest coffee out there.
To get this more on topic, why do Americans want cheap mopeds and then sue
the manufacturer when they get hurt on one??? That's one factor on why we
have so few cheap mopeds as it is ...
~ Danny ~
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
syracuse ska!!
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 02:05:18 -0500 (EST)
To: Moped Mailing List
Subject: Re: What is a Honda AERO 50?
On Wed, 17 Dec 1997 Huvz@aol.com wrote:
> Oh man! 60 mph??? Not with this kid riding it on 10" wheels.
I'm confused ... are you saying that you can't believe a scooter with 10"
wheels can go 60mph or that you think it's crazy??? My Vespa with 10"
wheels goes 65mph with no problem and I've ridden it on interstates all
over the country, as have many others. Took it up to 70mph once, but the
handling wasn't good, so I backed off. We also know a couple of guys who
have done 90+mph on theirs. It's just whatever you can handle ...
~ Danny ~
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
syracuse ska!!
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 03:33:06 -0600 (CST)
To: cyclepro@evansville.net
From: cyclepro@evansville.net
Subject: Re: Super Tuning - Bob T's concerns
On Wed, 17 Dec, daugava@nothnbut.net wrote...
>*************************************************
>Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 22:00:04 +0100
>To:
>Subject: Re: Super Tuning - Bob T's concerns
> > > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>Van: daugava@nothnbut.net
>Onderwerp: Super Tuning - Bob T's concerns
> > >>*************************************************
>>Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 18:26:43 -0600 (CST)
>>To: cyclepro@evansville.net
>>From: cyclepro@evansville.net
>>Subject: Super Tuning - Bob T's concerns
>> >> >you wrote:
>When we balance a Harley crankshaft we have a fairly elaborate
>process where we weigh all of the rotating and the reciprocating parts &
>perform several calculations to arrive at how much weight to cut out of, or
>add to the flywheels. The result is our rotating mass and our reciprocating
>mass is within a 1 to 3 gram range of each other. This pays off in reduced
>vibration and reduced stress on all of the parts. This is a common
>practice on large high performance engines and I think it would be
>appropriate to do something similar on a moped engine as well. But then you
>get into weather it is worth the trouble or not.
>>Thank you! ...........Greg Dougan.
>> >> >> >Hi Greg,
>What formula do you use for matching the contra weight (flywheels) ?
>does is ruleout the variing rotational force in the shaft by the piston ? by
>compensation or assument ?
>please info..
Reply to questions from Peter Staal's rescent post.
>ps how about dead point weight balance?
Peter - your referance to dead point balance is probably what I know as the
static balance method. I prefer static over the altenative dynanic balance
method because the static equipment is much less expensive. The static
method takes more time but when I am done I am more cretain of the results
and the engine seems to feel in balance over a wider rpm range and stay
balanced longer. When I am doing work for some of my more challanging
customers I also in corporate a active harmonic balancer in my design.
>does it use a constant for the piston velocity or the real one...
Manufactures are very reluctant to about giving out the information needed
to make the calulations. The constants I use are based off on data
collected from the race track and other experiances. I generally use a
constant of 5000 fps for a good quality OEM Cast piston and 6750 max for
the best qualtity forged pistons that incorporate the current NASCAR type
oil taper. I have never run into a problem driving out well beyond 6750 on
the good stuff but with the lesser qualtity OEM stuff I rescently had one
engine that wore to service limits with in 300 miles after a normal 500 mi
breakin. Ware was nill through the breakin but after that the owner took it
to the rev limter several times she started smoking. For the rider that is
pushing the envelop it is worth the money to go with the best. My
experiance has been the OEM stuff especially asian imports or designs don't
hold up to frequent red line opperation. I have yet to build an engine
using the new ceramic impregnated chromium cylinders & ultra high silicon
content but it stands to reason they would take a little more. The 6750
limits I run on my custom designed engines requires the use of Carillo or
at least S&S heavy duity connecting rods and crankshaft main bearings often
need to be up graded to stay within the load rating and give good bearing
life.
>i have no formula , for that part i always did it just on the guess ...
The formula for a basic static balance is essencially what I had I my
previous post but varies some from one of engine design to the next. I try
to use balance equipment designed for specific engine types when it is
available. The equipment will have indepth instructions and suggestions for
its target application. What you can do depends alot on how much flyweel
you have to work with. On one Harley engine that I was experimenting with
I cut over 7 lbs out of the flywheels! I increased the cylinder
displacenent 30% at the same time and still got it to balance!
I am curious as to how many are still riding in this cold weather. And I'de
like to hear any cold weather riding tips or experiances you want to share.
When I ride a Harley very far on a cold day I try to take a fat girl friend
to keep me warm but what do you do on a moped?
gotta go now....... Greg (Pappy) Dougan
Bye,
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 16:50:48 -0800
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: proof@idt.net
Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 19:28:50 -0500
> To: chrislo@cfw.com
> From: chrislo@cfw.com
> Subject: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > I can already get 48 mph> with just the biturbo pipe.
> i was> shocked to see that someone needed to rebuild their engine after
> only> 13,000 miles.
> lets do some more moped math:
> 13,000/50=260 hours in the saddle/24 hrs= you'd have to ride almost ten
> days straight at top speed before your bike broke down - maybe. (do it
> and you'll miss xmas).
> you have 1500 miles on it now; you've got ten times that same distance
> to go yet. if you've been puttering around for, say, 2 months now, you
> got another 18 to go. theoretically. where will you be then?
ok your math makes the situation look even more bleak. I dont get why people use their
mopeds so little and why people arent going across the continent on them. I guess it's
because they still own those wretched cars. Well anyway even if i have to buy a new
moped every year - thats ok cuz if i owned a car here in nj - insurance would be like
1500 dollars (after tax - so really 2000 dollars worth of earnings) and thats enough for
a new moped every year.
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 04:01:06 -0600 (CST)
To: cyclepro@evansville.net
From: cyclepro@evansville.net
Subject: Re: New moped
On Wed, 17 Dec, daugava@nothnbut.net wrote...
>*************************************************
>Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 23:31:49 -0500
>To: daugava@nothnbut.net
>From: DWCarpenter@webtv.net
>Subject: Re: New moped
> > >New mopeds......try a Kinetic or a Tomos. Thats all I can find anywhere
>near where I live. I think Kinetic has something to do with Honda, or
>at least used to.
>
In responce to above
Be careful - I was a Kinetic dealer - (still got one left) but found out
that as of a few days ago that no one is importing kinetics to the US - I
hear a rumor that there is another company that is trying to get
established as an importer. But I de be careful according to Cecil at
Mopeds LTD the Magnum has been discontinued and the CFR is the only one
still in production. As a dealer I had no advanced warning about the Magnum
being discontinued and I am pissed. No more Indian stuff for me. I do have
a Magnum that I'de sell for dealer cost (around $800) and I do have some
MAgimum parts but not many.
I like the Puch myself - I think it is the highest quality...So much that I
have applied for a dealership. And I also think that you will be more
likely to get parts for them in the future....I have been wrong once or
twice before.... Let hear some more opinions
Bye Bye,
Greg Dougan
>
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:48:35 -0600
To: "Mailing List"
Subject: New moped for $699
-------- reply to
Just Released MOPEDS MOPEDS MOPEDS MOPEDS MOPEDS
New Low Prices From>>>> Steve's Moped and Bicycle World Inc.
40 Park Avenue Dumont New
Jersey
07628
Phone(201)384-7777
Fax(201)384-7831
E-mail MOPEDMOPED@AOL.COM
Steve's Moped & Bicycle World has a special deal on brand new mopeds. On a
special deal approved by the manafacturer we can now offer the Puch Super
Maxi
2 Horsepower Korado Moped for $699.00. We have about 50 left to offer as
of
December 15, 1997. This Korado is very different fron the standard Korados
that have been offered for sale on the internet. This Korado has the new
High
Torque two horse power motor which will accelerate faster and climb hills
better. It also features a larger Bing carburetor and a less restrictive
turbo
exhaust. A restrictor for 1.5 horsepower conversion is available. Call us
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internationally. We offer motor rebuilding , ship parts and acessories
anywhere. We also have technical manuals and hard to find parts for
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of brands of mopeds. Call or e-mail us today! Our web address is
http://members.aol.com/mopedmoped/
Best Regards:
Steve Hassa President
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 17:34:12 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: 6828t@bright.net
Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
Hi Tony
If it was my ped I would wait till you could notice the power lose ( loss
of top speed) befor I would put the money in to do a rebuild. It will give
you more power on take off and top speed. I think I read on the net were they
say that the clutch is a little weak, and the extra power will wear it out
faster. I think in the long run it will just keep costing you more money. If
you are into speed that is the way to go. BUT if you want durability don't
mess with it. Of course that is just my opinion, they are just like assholes
we all have one.
Thank You
Bob T.
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> *************************************************
> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 23:49:01 -0800
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: proof@idt.net
> Subject: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
> > Hi all. I just joined the moped mailing list and I love it as I do my
> Tomos. I am wodering if any of you could share your experiences with
> getting the 70cc job done on the Targa. I am considering doing it but
> it's pretty expensive. Do you think it is worth it? I am mainly
> interested in better acceleration from a dead stop and more hill climbing
> power. I am not too concerned about top speed. I can already get 48 mph
> with just the biturbo pipe. So what I am wodering is: did you get much
> better acceleration? By how much did your gas mileage go down? Will
> having the 70cc make my engine last longer? - i am often doing 45mph to
> keep up with traffic on some roads and i figure at that given speed the
> engine will be working less with the 70cc - true?? I don't know too much
> about engines. Did the 70cc job cause any other problems? Is the bike
> louder with the 70 cc? Any other info/impressions would be greatly
> appreciated.
> > Also i was reading some of the old messages in the mailing list and i was
> shocked to see that someone needed to rebuild their engine after only
> 13,000 miles. Is this the norm for mopeds? I was counting on mine lasting
> for a couple hundred thousand miles. If the moped only lasts 13,000 miles
> then operating a moped is not as cheap as it seems. I am very interested
> in the per mile cost of moped operation. I have calculated my cost here
> in the US at 5 cents per mile - thats counting every conceivable cost
> realted to the moped. But maybe i am being too optimistic here. Anyone
> else done a calculation on this. I only have 1500 miles on my tomos so i
> guess i dont really know what's going on with costs yet.
> > Also, for all you pilots in NJ - and there seem to be a disproportionate
> number of you - I bought my bike at a well known dealer in Bergen county
> and at first i was very happy with them. Then, when i brought the bike in
> for the recommended 300 mile check-up, they tried to charge me $113 for
> it!!!! Let's see that's like 35 cents per mile. I could operate a
> ferrari cheaper than that. I will never set foot in that dealer again.
> Alot of this dealer's customers are rich kids with money to burn - the
> kind that sell their bikes as soon as they get their driver permit. Who
> is the best dealer in NJ/NY area?? Someone honest.
> > Ok enough for now. I would greatly appreciate any responses. Ciao.
> > Tony
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 23:57:30 +0100
To: "Moped Mailinglist"
Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: daugava@nothnbut.net
Onderwerp: 70cc bore kit experiences
>*************************************************
>Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 19:28:50 -0500
>To: chrislo@cfw.com
>From: chrislo@cfw.com
>Subject: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > >I can already get 48 mph> with just the biturbo pipe.
> i was> shocked to see that someone needed to rebuild their engine after
>only> 13,000 miles.
>lets do some more moped math:
>13,000/50=260 hours in the saddle/24 hrs= you'd have to ride almost ten
>days straight at top speed before your bike broke down - maybe. (do it
>and you'll miss xmas).
>you have 1500 miles on it now; you've got ten times that same distance
>to go yet. if you've been puttering around for, say, 2 months now, you
>got another 18 to go. theoretically. where will you be then?
> > Hi you all,
I want to say only this about the whole milage/maintanace issue, a moped is
like a woman, you get ém how you threat them, you can do it the hardway or
stay relaxed, it matters a lot.
short tracking with top speed kills any combution engine (or any engine at
all, except electro thingies), long relaxed rides with slow/ relaxed
accelerating ,looking far ahead to avoid braking and gearing shifts, a
machine can last a life time, when cared for (the usual stuff, oil, cables,
bulbs, rustprevention, once in a while a new tire, once in a few years a
total checkup (evt. new bearings/seals/springs) this is normal maintenance
not a disaster. so costs can vary a lot 2 exaples (extrems but had it
myselve!) (all prices are in hfl, 2 hfl= $1) period is 5 years
1 : slow boat / old faithfull -> bought at 60, restauration 250 , all done except motor. 2 new tires 110
,new cables (8) (it eats ém but with the high handlebar it is hard to do
not) total 20
a lot of gas 2.25 a litre makes with non-daily use at least 15000 km in the
last 5 years
a price per km > 440 hardware+15000/30*2*2.25=1125+insurance 5*115=575=>total
2140/15000=0,1426 so lets say 15 cents a km what makes $ 0.07 a km =$ 0.1141
a mile (1 mile = 1.6 km)
2> hot rod:
bought 250
renovation incl block 400
insurance 5*115 (btw the same money as in the other example , so i only had
to spend it once.. 1 insurance for all my oldtimermopeds)
4000 km run at 1:12 (at speeds of over 100 km/h) 4000/12*2.25=750
re-renovation 350 (cyl. piston, cranckshaft/ clutch/ chain wheels),
in the mean time 2 chaines used 50
new brake shoe (disk brakes) 80
4 new inner tubes(back, rips of the valve when accelerating to fast, no
money for a real fat tire...the motorshop is so damn expensive) 80
2 weeks filing/drilling / tuning/ welding/calibrating to get it at a
reasonable power.
total 250+400+575+750+350+50+80+80=2535/4000= 0,6337 hfl/ km so 64 cent a
km
$0.32 a km and $0.50 a mile..........
normal use will give a $/milage some where inbetween, lets say when in
maintenance with you local moped dealer $ 0,20 a mile with gas at european
prices....;(
Bye, Peter Staal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Email: staal@concepts.nl
Home: http://home.concepts.nl/~staal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 23:58:45 +0100
To: "Moped Mailinglist"
Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: daugava@nothnbut.net
Onderwerp: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
>*************************************************
>Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:33:49 -0800
>To: daugava@nothnbut.net
>From: proof@idt.net
>Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
> > >daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
>> >> *************************************************
>> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:30:55 EST
>> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
>> From: AaronM428@aol.com
>> Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
>> about air cooler cylinders:
>Ok so heat is the main reason these engines dont last long? If i am not
mistaken, the
>Volkswagen Beetle is an air cooled engine - why do they last forever and a
day?
> > a beetle has (as do zundapp, tomos, old kreidlers, solex! and some scooters)
fan-forced air cooling what also keeps the engine cool when idling, or at
high perf. (not that high but high enough) so the driving speed is of no
importance, a targa or maxi does not have such a 'help'so it blows up at
zero speed and open trottle....:).
Bye, Peter Staal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Email: staal@concepts.nl
Home: http://home.concepts.nl/~staal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 06:53:04 -0800
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: proof@idt.net
Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 23:57:30 +0100
> To: "Moped Mailinglist"
> Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: daugava@nothnbut.net
> Onderwerp: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > >*************************************************
> >Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 19:28:50 -0500
> >To: chrislo@cfw.com
> >From: chrislo@cfw.com
> >Subject: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > > > > >I can already get 48 mph> with just the biturbo pipe.
> > i was> shocked to see that someone needed to rebuild their engine after
> >only> 13,000 miles.
> >lets do some more moped math:
> >13,000/50=260 hours in the saddle/24 hrs= you'd have to ride almost ten
> >days straight at top speed before your bike broke down - maybe. (do it
> >and you'll miss xmas).
> >you have 1500 miles on it now; you've got ten times that same distance
> >to go yet. if you've been puttering around for, say, 2 months now, you
> >got another 18 to go. theoretically. where will you be then?
> > > > > Hi you all,
> I want to say only this about the whole milage/maintanace issue, a moped is
> like a woman, you get ém how you threat them, you can do it the hardway or
> stay relaxed, it matters a lot.
> short tracking with top speed kills any combution engine (or any engine at
> all, except electro thingies), long relaxed rides with slow/ relaxed
> accelerating ,looking far ahead to avoid braking and gearing shifts, a
> machine can last a life time, when cared for (the usual stuff, oil, cables,
> bulbs, rustprevention, once in a while a new tire, once in a few years a
> total checkup (evt. new bearings/seals/springs) this is normal maintenance
> not a disaster. so costs can vary a lot 2 exaples (extrems but had it
> myselve!) (all prices are in hfl, 2 hfl= $1) period is 5 years
> > 1 : slow boat / old faithfull -> > bought at 60, restauration 250 , all done except motor. 2 new tires 110
> ,new cables (8) (it eats ém but with the high handlebar it is hard to do
> not) total 20
> a lot of gas 2.25 a litre makes with non-daily use at least 15000 km in the
> last 5 years
> a price per km > > 440 hardware+15000/30*2*2.25=1125+insurance 5*115=575=>total
> 2140/15000=0,1426 so lets say 15 cents a km what makes $ 0.07 a km =$ 0.1141
> a mile (1 mile = 1.6 km)
> > 2> hot rod:
> bought 250
> renovation incl block 400
> insurance 5*115 (btw the same money as in the other example , so i only had
> to spend it once.. 1 insurance for all my oldtimermopeds)
> 4000 km run at 1:12 (at speeds of over 100 km/h) 4000/12*2.25=750
> re-renovation 350 (cyl. piston, cranckshaft/ clutch/ chain wheels),
> in the mean time 2 chaines used 50
> new brake shoe (disk brakes) 80
> 4 new inner tubes(back, rips of the valve when accelerating to fast, no
> money for a real fat tire...the motorshop is so damn expensive) 80
> 2 weeks filing/drilling / tuning/ welding/calibrating to get it at a
> reasonable power.
> > total 250+400+575+750+350+50+80+80=2535/4000= 0,6337 hfl/ km so 64 cent a
> km
> $0.32 a km and $0.50 a mile..........
> > normal use will give a $/milage some where inbetween, lets say when in
> maintenance with you local moped dealer $ 0,20 a mile with gas at european
> prices....;(
> > Bye, Peter Staal
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Email: staal@concepts.nl
> Home: http://home.concepts.nl/~staal
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, interesting calculations and very disturbing. However there is one flaw in your
calculations. I assume that both of these mopeds are still running. So, you have
calculated your cost/km based only on the number of kms you have ridden SO FAR. You have
to account for the fact that you will get future kms from these investments. So you must
estimate what the lifespan of these mopeds will be (in kms) and calculate based on that.
This will lead to a lower cost/km figure and this is why i am so interested in how many
kms i can expect to get out of my ped.
I dont know much about engines. So I used a figure of 100,000 miles - ok now i know that
is not realistic. Is the short life span of mopeds a result of the fact that the engine
designs used are crude and have not been improved over the years? I mean is there a high
tech engine design out there using high quality materials or whatever that would last
alot longer? Also - do scooters use a different engine design? Do they last longer? Just
what is the difference between a scooter and a moped anyway - i dont get why people make
such a big distinction - even people who know nothing at all about scooters or mopeds.
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 06:56:16 -0800
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: proof@idt.net
Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 17:34:12 -0500
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: 6828t@bright.net
> Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
> > Hi Tony
> If it was my ped I would wait till you could notice the power lose ( loss
> of top speed) befor I would put the money in to do a rebuild. It will give
> you more power on take off and top speed. I think I read on the net were they
> say that the clutch is a little weak, and the extra power will wear it out
> faster. I think in the long run it will just keep costing you more money. If
> you are into speed that is the way to go. BUT if you want durability don't
> mess with it. Of course that is just my opinion, they are just like assholes
> we all have one.
> > Thank You
> > Bob T.
>
Ok thats the direction i'm leaning in - the job is pretty damn expensive and it's not
really speed i'm after - just more acceleration.
> daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > > *************************************************
> > Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 23:49:01 -0800
> > To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> > From: proof@idt.net
> > Subject: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
> > > > Hi all. I just joined the moped mailing list and I love it as I do my
> > Tomos. I am wodering if any of you could share your experiences with
> > getting the 70cc job done on the Targa. I am considering doing it but
> > it's pretty expensive. Do you think it is worth it? I am mainly
> > interested in better acceleration from a dead stop and more hill climbing
> > power. I am not too concerned about top speed. I can already get 48 mph
> > with just the biturbo pipe. So what I am wodering is: did you get much
> > better acceleration? By how much did your gas mileage go down? Will
> > having the 70cc make my engine last longer? - i am often doing 45mph to
> > keep up with traffic on some roads and i figure at that given speed the
> > engine will be working less with the 70cc - true?? I don't know too much
> > about engines. Did the 70cc job cause any other problems? Is the bike
> > louder with the 70 cc? Any other info/impressions would be greatly
> > appreciated.
> > > > Also i was reading some of the old messages in the mailing list and i was
> > shocked to see that someone needed to rebuild their engine after only
> > 13,000 miles. Is this the norm for mopeds? I was counting on mine lasting
> > for a couple hundred thousand miles. If the moped only lasts 13,000 miles
> > then operating a moped is not as cheap as it seems. I am very interested
> > in the per mile cost of moped operation. I have calculated my cost here
> > in the US at 5 cents per mile - thats counting every conceivable cost
> > realted to the moped. But maybe i am being too optimistic here. Anyone
> > else done a calculation on this. I only have 1500 miles on my tomos so i
> > guess i dont really know what's going on with costs yet.
> > > > Also, for all you pilots in NJ - and there seem to be a disproportionate
> > number of you - I bought my bike at a well known dealer in Bergen county
> > and at first i was very happy with them. Then, when i brought the bike in
> > for the recommended 300 mile check-up, they tried to charge me $113 for
> > it!!!! Let's see that's like 35 cents per mile. I could operate a
> > ferrari cheaper than that. I will never set foot in that dealer again.
> > Alot of this dealer's customers are rich kids with money to burn - the
> > kind that sell their bikes as soon as they get their driver permit. Who
> > is the best dealer in NJ/NY area?? Someone honest.
> > > > Ok enough for now. I would greatly appreciate any responses. Ciao.
> > > > Tony
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 07:04:50 -0800
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: proof@idt.net
Subject: Re: "Porting job for speed"
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 01:47:56 -0500 (EST)
> To: Moped Mailing List
> Subject: Re: "Porting job for speed"
> > On Wed, 17 Dec 1997 AaronM428@aol.com wrote:
> > Ah, the, "It can't possibly be my fault that I dropped that steaming hot
> > coffee in my lap. All I did was drive with it between my legs."
> > mentality. Personally I am surprised that the lady didn't sue the car
> > company for not having cup holders. Oh well, I suppose there are worse
> > places to be.
> > Actually, it wasn't spilling hot coffee per se that triggered the lawsuit.
> It was the abnormally high temperature that led to her needing skingrafts.
> Apparently, McDonalds had far & away the hottest coffee out there.
> > To get this more on topic, why do Americans want cheap mopeds and then sue
> the manufacturer when they get hurt on one??? That's one factor on why we
> have so few cheap mopeds as it is ...
> > ~ Danny ~
> > ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
> syracuse ska!!
Speaking of all this, i'm absolutely amazed that it is possible to manufacture and sell
bungee cords in the US and that they don't cost $25 each ($24.50 for lawsuit insurance).
I absolutely love bungee cords - my bike touring and hauling stuff on my ped would be
nowhere without them. But they can be highly dangerous if you dont treat them with
respect. If you dont secure one end to well and you begin pulling toward the other hook
up point - you can lose an eye easily - almost happened to me. Now i always pull with
both hands in case it gives.
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 18:16:05 -0600 (CST)
To: cyclepro@evansville.net
From: cyclepro@evansville.net
Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
On Wed, 17 Dec, daugava@nothnbut.net wrote...
>*************************************************
>Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:25:25 -0800
>To: daugava@nothnbut.net
>From: proof@idt.net
>Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
> > >daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
>> >> *************************************************
>> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:30:55 EST
>> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
>> From: AaronM428@aol.com
>> Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
>> >> In a message dated 97-12-17 15:11:29 EST, you write:
>> >> << Also i was reading some of the old messages in the mailing list and i was
>> shocked to see that someone needed to rebuild their engine after only
>> 13,000 miles. Is this the norm for mopeds? I was counting on mine lasting
>> for a couple hundred thousand miles. If the moped only lasts 13,000 miles
Actually 13,000 miles before major overhaul is exceptional service from my
experiance. Major overhaul means overhauling bottom bottom & top end of the
motor. The design service life of a 2 cycle engine is placed at about
500hrs. This is out of one of my engineering handbooks.
In the real world a top end last any where from 2 to 4000 miles before it
will need something.
>> You have to remember that most mopeds are not built for primary
>> transportation. It would take me 26 years (at my current rate) to reach
I am under the impression that mopeds and scooters are primary
transportation for many in Europe and Asia.
>> 13,000 miles, if I get 5,000-6,000 miles I will be ecstatic. Additionally,
I think this is much more realistic.
>> air-cooled engines tend to wear faster because of more heat. This is
not that
>> much of a problem when moving along at speed, but I would warn against idling
TRUE - Cooling - and thermodynamics is a very important factor in engine
life. The whole thermodynanic picture is important. reciprocating aircraft
engines are mostly air cooled. Testing done on them indicates that the
majority of the ware occurs when the engine is BELOW normal opperating
tempratures such as during warmup. There are several types, grades and
alloys of metal used in any given engine. Diffrent materials expand and
contract at diffrent rates. During warm up ware rates are increased due to
impropper fit of parts. Once all the parts of the engine reach operating
temprature and they fit like they should and ware is minimual. Test show
that as much as 90% of the ware occurs during warm up and cool down
periods. To rapid a cool down can have a disastorus effect. Consider this
- an aircooled engine cylinder properly designed is very efficent at
disapating heat thru the fins and begins to contract as soon as power is
reduced, the piston however does not cool as rapidly so the fit gets
tighter and ware increases. Big recip aircraft engines can litteraly be
killed by one improper power reduction. Think about this the next you do a
max power hill climb then accelerate at full throttle on top of the hill
then close the throttle to idle on a long steep down grade........But there
are some other fundamental reasons for the short life of the two stroke
engine. A 2 cycle needs to opperate at high RPM before it makes much torque
& horsepower. More rpm increases ware & heat. That is just the nature of
the beast.
Also the typical mopded engine has to work way to hard to di the job we
demand of it. I am getting at the engine size versus the load its toating.
We work those little engines to death. We use low gearing to compensate for
the small engine. Typically a moped has about a 10 to 1 overall gear ratio
in high gear. that means the engine turns over 10 times to make the wheel
turn just once. A big stock Harley turns as little as 2.94 to 1 - some a
little more. Cars are similar ratios. What we refer to as a "low geared"
truck is usually in the 3 to 4 to 1 range. Also a moped spends alot of its
life at full throttle or 100% power. Optimum recip engine life is achieved
at in the 50 to 75% of max rated power range.
If you consider these factors that 70cc up grade makes more sense.
When I soup up an engine I run a gearing progam and aportion 1/2 of the
power increase to making speed and the other half to resurve. This keeps
fuel economy very reasonable and makes the machine more enjoyable to ride
because you have somemore resurve power.
>> 1,000 kilometers (approx. 500 miles) on my Targa LX and have done all service
>> myself (well I did get some help from my neighbor when the carb got clogged.)
>> What did the dealer tell you needed to be done at this service?Ok,
>main point is that if you have to buy a new moped every 13,000 miles then
>it's actually not a very cheap form of transport. Just what does
>"rebuilding" the engine mean - how much does it cost? Well I have to
>qualify what i just said. Here in NJ I could buy a new moped every year
>with the money i am not spending on car insurance. Ciao
I do the initial 1 or 2 services for my customers on a new one for the
price of the fluids and supplies. The labor part is free unless something
needs repair due to neglect, missuse or abuse. I do support competent
owners doing their own wrenching. the proper tools, publications and a
clean, safe, well lighted place to work are essential. If you don't have
the proper stuff to work with you can't get results efficently. When it
comes to top o/h or a major. I blueprint when I put em togather (that means
I fit things to optimum tollerances, I don't just install what comes in the
box)and the tool cost for that is prohibitive for most. When you select a
shop to do work for you make sure they have what it takes too. Sadly many
do not.
>and all over canada. Am I crazy? Can a moped simply not handle this? My
Touring on any kind of a cycle often is a challanging adventure. You have
to constantly asses you and your machine's limitations or you can become a
causuality.
Some people set out across country with nothing but a backpack on foot, so
why not a moped? I do as much touring on a Harley as I have time and money
for. Alot of people think I am "NUTS".
Hope this helps some of you.....Greg
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 18:24:06 -0600 (CST)
To: cyclepro@evansville.net
From: cyclepro@evansville.net
Subject: Re: What is a Honda AERO 50?
On Thu, 18 Dec, daugava@nothnbut.net wrote...
>*************************************************
>Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 02:05:18 -0500 (EST)
>To: Moped Mailing List
>Subject: Re: What is a Honda AERO 50?
> >On Wed, 17 Dec 1997 Huvz@aol.com wrote:
>> Oh man! 60 mph??? Not with this kid riding it on 10" wheels.
> >I'm confused ... are you saying that you can't believe a scooter with 10"
>wheels can go 60mph or that you think it's crazy??? My Vespa with 10"
>wheels goes 65mph with no problem and I've ridden it on interstates all
>over the country, as have many others. Took it up to 70mph once, but the
>handling wasn't good, so I backed off. We also know a couple of guys who
>have done 90+mph on theirs. It's just whatever you can handle ...
> > ~ Danny ~
Danny that is what I mean by chasing the Demond or pushing the envelope.
The slightest could do you in out there.
BE CAREFULL.........Greg.
>
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:47:36 -0800
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: catrinus.j.wallet@exgate.tek.com
Subject: Moped Joke
A hip young man goes out and buys the best car available: a 1996, Turbo
BeepBeep. It is the best and most expensive car in the world, and it
runs him $500,000. He takes it out for a spin and, while doing so, stops
for a red light. An old man on a moped (both looking about 90 years old)
pulls up next to him. The old man looks over the sleek, shiny surface of
the car and asks, "What kind of car ya' got there, sonny?".
The young man replies, "A 1996 Turbo BeepBeep. They cost $500,000."
"That's a lot of money" says the old man, shocked. "Why does it cost so
much?
"Because this car can do up to 320 miles an hour!" states the cool dude
proudly.
The moped driver asks, "Can I take a look inside?" "Sure", replies the
owner.
So, the old man pokes his head in the window and looks around.
Leaning back on his moped, the old man says "That's a pretty nice car,
all right!"
Just then, the light changes, so the guy decides to show the old man
what his car can do. He floors it, and within 30 seconds the speedometer
reads 320 mph.
Suddenly, he notices a dot in his rear view mirror. It seems to be
getting closer! He slows down to see what it could be and suddenly,
whhhoooossshhh! Something whips by him, going much faster!
"What on earth could be going faster than my Turbo BeepBeep?" the young
man asks himself.
Then, ahead of him, he sees a dot coming toward him. Whoooooosh! It goes
by again, heading the opposite direction! And, it almost looked like the
old man on the moped! "Couldn't be," thinks the guy. "How could a moped
outrun a Turbo BeepBeep?"
Again, he sees a dot in his rear view mirror! Whooooosh Ka-BbblaMMM!
It plows into the back of his car, demolishing the rear end. The young
man jumps out, and Jesus to Betsy, it is the old man!!! Of course the
moped and the old man are hurting for certain. He runs up to the dying
old man and says, "You're hurt bad! Is there anything I can do for you?"
The old man groans and replies, "Yes. Unhook my suspenders from your
side-view mirror!"
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 19:26:24 -0600
To: "Mailing List"
Subject: capabilities of 50cc
-------- reply to chris loewl
lets take a quick gander at the 50cc zuendapp super sport (purple),
designed to go 80kmh with passenger. its "ported" cylinder, piston,
carb, and exhaust fit on the 25 kmh max. zd25 (red) moped without any
modifications (as did kreidler flory/florette parts, much to the
consternation of the law); they're pretty much from the same mold.
shorten the exhaust of the zd25 and you got a mean little hornet (do NOT
touch the chain gears!).
but anal, law-suit leery engineers put bigger brakes on the ss, along
with better shocks, a stronger frame. then the ss cylinder has wider
"fins" for better cooling, plus two "fin- vibration-suppressor-bolts"
thru the cylinder head to minimize hum (cops saw those a mile away).
the ss was replaced by the excellent "watercooled" version with fairing,
adjustable shocks and front disc brake (which, alas, made it far too
expensive for joe sixpack). so its pretty obvious where the wear and
tear is going to be - and where the dangers lurk
ANDREW: This message originates from Chris Loewl
Three pictures were included with this post - you'll find them at
/d/moped/Sshalf.jpg
/d/moped/Zdhalf.jpg
/d/moped/Wkhalf.jpg
These pictures page are originally from Kent Jalohen's
Zundapp site - check it out at
http://www.kjtools.se/zundapp.
More Zundapp images can be found at
http://www.kjtools.se/zundapp/ks50tysk.html
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 20:22:42 -0600
To: "Mailing List"
Subject: New URL - Puch Moped Parts
Here's the address:
http://www.mindspring.com/~digitalcontinuum/spacenut/puch/puch.html
Not sure how reliable it is, but the list of parts is pretty big.
Looks like author of that page can be reached at spacenut@rocketship.com
(there wasn't an email visible, but I found it hidden in the source code).
Andrew
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 21:52:05 -0600
To: "Mailing List"
Subject: Tomos 91 manual
--------- reply to Gokartridr
i am looking for a manual for a 1991 tomos golden bullet. any word will
help.
Nathan
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 22:12:50 -0600
To: "Mailing List"
Subject: FS: Derbi Moped 1983
------- from alt.scooter, reply to STEVE LIEBENBERG
For sale in southern Oregon. Looks like a dirt bike with pedals. Runs
well. All original except for intake boot to the carb. Street legal in
Oregon for daytime use as it has no turn signals. $495-00 USD. E mail
me.
Steve (Class Cycles)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 23:52:30 -0800
To:
Subject: Re: New moped
Where are you located? I have a moped dealership in southern ohio,
we sell tomos and majestic mopeds. If I can help, please let me know.
Thanks, Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: daugava@nothnbut.net
Subject: New moped
>*************************************************
>Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:41:06 EST
>To: daugava@nothnbut.net
>From: Kbry08@aol.com
>Subject: New moped
> > >hey--i have a question?--i am looking for a new moped preferably honda or
>yamaha but it really dosen't matter---i would like to know what are some of
>the best out there and what features would be nice[ like can i get a
stereo?
>etc...] also which have a good resale value becase i am getting a car in a
few
>years---
>just give me a crash course of the field out there
>thanks--
>todd
> > >
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 21:27:54 -0800 (PST)
To: Moped Mailing List
Subject: Re: Super Tuning - Bob T's concerns
RE: engine balancing- I thought that the only concern when balancing a
single cylinder engine was how much counterweight you wanted to use?
With 0% balance, the vibration was supposed to be inline with the piston
travel, at 100% counter balance, the vibration is felt at a 90 degree
angle to the piston travel. Weights between 0% and 100% move the
vibration between 0 degrees and 90 degrees. Are there other concerns that
I'm not aware of? I realize that the percieved vibration changes with the
counterweight percentage, engine mounting and cylinder layout (horizontal,
vertical or in between).
I recently got to test ride a Buell. The engine would shake your
eyeballs so bad at idle that I couldn't focus on a traffic sign across the
street. Once up to speed, the vibration was gone! Just a hint of a tingle
in the foot pegs! Love that Uniplanar mounting!
-Dave
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 11:20:13 +0100
To: Andrei Zaitsev
Subject: Mopeds in Norway
At 16:41 18.12.97 -0600, you wrote:
>> I want to Subschribe to the moped mailing list!
>> Thank you!
>Ok, you'll be in shortly!
> >BTW, it would be interesting to find out what's the
>moped situation in Norway - how many are there, what kind of
>people rides them, what are the regulations, etc.
> >Andrew
Hello!
In 1962 60000 mopeds was on the roads in Norway,today may be 15000. It is
the youngest
and the oldest people who drives mopeds in Norway, and some students too.
You could drive in 60 km/h. Normaly the moped have 2,5 hp. You must pay a
moped liability insurence, a registration fee and road licence. If your
moped are 30 years old,you only need a moped liability insurence.
You don`t pay road toll in the city. The season is from May to October.
Some people drive in the winter too.(in the country).To day you can see
Suzuki,Honda,Yamaha ,Java, some mopeds from Italy and some from the East on
the roads.Some mopeds have been produced in Norway. Tempo,Raufoss, Termoped
and some others.Tempo was the most popular moped, with Sachs engine.They
stoped the production in 1985. I have a WWW side with this mopeds.
http://www.phys.ntnu.no/~dagjoh
Sorry , only Norwegian.> > >Sorry about my English,I was to lazy in scool.
Dagfinn.
Dagfinn Johnsen.
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 09:27:35 -0500
To: chrislo@cfw.com
From: chrislo@cfw.com
Subject: Re: capabilities of 50cc
> > neato. the swedish zuendapp site the pics are from wasn't working
> > properly - couldn't link.
> What's the URL of swedish Zundapp site ?
> The pics are so good-looking, I want to see more.
some are from various ads i started at forever as a kid. wish i still
had the bike descriptions opposite the photos
the link is
http://www.kjtools.se/zundapp
better look it up "manually" i keep getting javascript error
fortunatley i downloaded all his pix of various zuednapp models
chris
p.s. i'm still ob the lookoput for a puch cobra gtl photo; the sleek
puch equivalent of the zuendapp ks 50 watercooled
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 16:04:11 +0100
To:
Subject: Re: Super Tuning - Bob T's concerns
> >The formula for a basic static balance is essencially what I had I my
>previous post but varies some from one of engine design to the next. I try
>to use balance equipment designed for specific engine types when it is
>available. The equipment will have indepth instructions and suggestions for
>its target application. What you can do depends alot on how much flyweel
>you have to work with. On one Harley engine that I was experimenting with
>I cut over 7 lbs out of the flywheels! I increased the cylinder
>displacenent 30% at the same time and still got it to balance!
> yep, moped tuning has whole other conserns, decreasing the crankshaft room
is the thing here,
and the weight of the piston and bore width are uncomparable i assume.
>I am curious as to how many are still riding in this cold weather. And I'de
>like to hear any cold weather riding tips or experiances you want to share.
>When I ride a Harley very far on a cold day I try to take a fat girl friend
>to keep me warm but what do you do on a moped?
>
take her beautifull sister for a ride :)
>gotta go now....... Greg (Pappy) Dougan
> > thanks,
Peter.
>
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 15:34:29 +0100
To: "Moped Mailinglist"
Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> Hi you all,
> I want to say only this about the whole milage/maintanace issue, a moped
is
> like a woman, you get ém how you threat them, you can do it the hardway or
> stay relaxed, it matters a lot.
> short tracking with top speed kills any combution engine (or any engine at
> all, except electro thingies), long relaxed rides with slow/ relaxed
> accelerating ,looking far ahead to avoid braking and gearing shifts, a
> machine can last a life time, when cared for (the usual stuff, oil,
cables,
> bulbs, rustprevention, once in a while a new tire, once in a few years a
> total checkup (evt. new bearings/seals/springs) this is normal maintenance
> not a disaster. so costs can vary a lot 2 examples (extrems but had it
> myselve!) (all prices are in hfl, 2 hfl= $1) period is 5 years
> > 1 : slow boat / old faithfull -> > bought at 60, restauration 250 , all done except motor. 2 new tires 110
> ,new cables (8) (it eats ém but with the high handlebar it is hard to do
> not) total 20
> a lot of gas 2.25 a litre makes with non-daily use at least 15000 km in
the
> last 5 years
> a price per km > > 440 hardware+15000/30*2*2.25=1125+insurance 5*115=575=>total
> 2140/15000=0,1426 so lets say 15 cents a km what makes $ 0.07 a km =$
0.1141
> a mile (1 mile = 1.6 km)
> > 2> hot rod:
> bought 250
> renovation incl block 400
> insurance 5*115 (btw the same money as in the other example , so i only
had
> to spend it once.. 1 insurance for all my oldtimermopeds)
> 4000 km run at 1:12 (at speeds of over 100 km/h) 4000/12*2.25=750
> re-renovation 350 (cyl. piston, cranckshaft/ clutch/ chain wheels),
> in the mean time 2 chaines used 50
> new brake shoe (disk brakes) 80
> 4 new inner tubes(back, rips of the valve when accelerating to fast, no
> money for a real fat tire...the motorshop is so damn expensive) 80
> 2 weeks filing/drilling / tuning/ welding/calibrating to get it at a
> reasonable power.
> > total 250+400+575+750+350+50+80+80=2535/4000= 0,6337 hfl/ km so 64 cent a
> km
> $0.32 a km and $0.50 a mile..........
> > normal use will give a $/milage some where inbetween, lets say when in
> maintenance with you local moped dealer $ 0,20 a mile with gas at european
> prices....;(
> > Bye, Peter Staal
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Email: staal@concepts.nl
> Home: http://home.concepts.nl/~staal
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, interesting calculations and very disturbing. However there is one flaw
in your
calculations. I assume that both of these mopeds are still running. So, you
have
calculated your cost/km based only on the number of kms you have ridden SO
FAR. You have
to account for the fact that you will get future kms from these investments.
*Right, this could happen , but is not sure, ( i could crash into a car
tomorrow what cost much more than i wantto and killcrash my bike , who
knows) and is 5 years not a reasonable
economic lifespan for a moped ? relative it will get more costs every year
it ages, by normal inflation of the money/ rising prices/ taxes, and our big
enemy the hear cracks in the structure, weathering of paint & plastic &
tires
So you must estimate what the lifespan of these mopeds will be (in kms) and
calculate based on that.
This will lead to a lower cost/km figure and this is why i am so interested
in how many
kms i can expect to get out of my ped.
* In fact on the short term more km now will boost the costs/km in example
nr 1 ,the moment for a (expensive) renovation of the block is coming closer
and closer.
how long do you live, how much do you drive ? that long !!
I dont know much about engines. So I used a figure of 100,000 miles - ok now
i know that
is not realistic. Is the short life span of mopeds a result of the fact that
the engine
designs used are crude and have not been improved over the years?
*nope, due to the trendy outlooks durability is more a minor issue for the
manufacturers, and what is short , life is short.
I mean is there a high tech engine design out there using high quality
materials or whatever that would last alot longer?
*New ped's are mostly high tech ! only the basic priciple is still the same.
HQ materials are used on the edge of the possible in racing etc. and usualy
last less long than your casted iron cilinder :)
I think it is more fair to use the costs a year that are real costs and make
example 1 : 2140/5=428 a year =$214
and 2 : 2535/5=507 a year =$253.5
Also - do scooters use a different engine design? Do they last longer? Just
what is the difference between a scooter and a moped anyway - i dont get why
people make
such a big distinction - even people who know nothing at all about scooters
or mopeds.
*you really didn't get it é
Bye, Peter Staal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Email: staal@concepts.nl
Home: http://home.concepts.nl/~staal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 18:17:57 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: GeeeTeee@aol.com
Subject: Re: Moped Joke
Q: What do fat women and mopeds have in common?
A: They are both fun to ride till your friends find out!
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 20:21:45 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: 6828t@bright.net
Subject: looking for Motobecane parts
Hello
I am trying to start a Motobecane club here in the states. I am
looking for anybody that stocks parts or know were they can get them, Is
there a moped grave yard that has Motobecane parts. So any dealers or
privet owners that has parts please let me know. By e-mail if you would
please. It is always nice to be able to help someone find that hard to
find part. Parts or finding parts is one of the main reasons that I am
trying to start this club, plus the availability of manuals for
Motobecane. and or any info on them that you would like to pass on. E
-mail at 6828t@bright.net
Thank You
Motobecane Club USA.
Pres. Bob Taylor
6828t@bright.net
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 17:48:35 -0800
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: bcjkand@direct.ca
Subject: Help!!!!!
I own a motobecane moped an I despratly need piston rings for it. It is a
2 cycle 50cc caddy BP zoom and the are impossible to find please help.
Brad Anderson
Bcjkand@direct.ca
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 21:02:00 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Wrnch@aol.com
Subject: Re: " help - motobecane piston"
I am desperatly looking for an asso werke's piston #2352 it came out of a
motobecane with no identification on it, all attempts to look it up by
application have frustratingly ended up in the wrong pistons!! Maybe a
different cyclinder was installed ??? Any help or thoughts on my predicament
would be welcome.
George @ Middletown Motorcycles
WRNCH@aol.com
802-235-BIKE (2453) Voice
802-235-9373 Fax
Date: 20 Dec 1997 07:58:37 -0800
To: "daugava@nothnbut.net"
Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit
To @REPLY
To WILMET WILLIAM R METTEER From @INET (HO) Type N 12-17-97 10:10p
FROM: daugava@nothnbut.net
*************************************************
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:33:49 -0800
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: proof@idt.net
Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:30:55 EST
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: AaronM428@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
> > In a message dated 97-12-17 15:11:29 EST, you write:
> > << Also i was reading some of the old messages in the mailing list and i was
> shocked to see that someone needed to rebuild their engine after only
> 13,000 miles. Is this the norm for mopeds? I was counting on mine lasting
> for a couple hundred thousand miles. If the moped only lasts 13,000 miles
> then operating a moped is not as cheap as it seems. I am very interested
> in the per mile cost of moped operation. I have calculated my cost here
> in the US at 5 cents per mile - thats counting every conceivable cost
> realted to the moped. But maybe i am being too optimistic here. Anyone
> else done a calculation on this. I only have 1500 miles on my tomos so i
> guess i dont really know what's going on with costs yet. >> > > You have to remember that most mopeds are not built for primary
> transportation. It would take me 26 years (at my current rate) to reach
> 13,000 miles, if I get 5,000-6,000 miles I will be ecstatic. Additionally,
> air-cooled engines tend to wear faster because of more heat. This is not
that
> much of a problem when moving along at speed, but I would warn against
idling
> for more the 3-4 minutes or running in slow city traffic because then not
> enough air moves past the cylinder to cool it. It does seem that the engine
> should get more miles (especially since 2-strokes never have to worry about
> dirty oil). About that 300 mile service, you didn't do it yourself? I have
> 1,000 kilometers (approx. 500 miles) on my Targa LX and have done all
service
> myself (well I did get some help from my neighbor when the carb got
clogged.)
> What did the dealer tell you needed to be done at this service?
Well that is what i wanted to know. The dude went down the list of stuff - 90% of it was
stuff even a mechanical illiterate like me could have done. I felt like i'd been really
had. Since then i've done everything myself and will not bother with bringing it in for
these "checkups". I think Tomos is shooting themselves in the foot telling people to
bring the bike in for service every 1000 miles. Like I said, it would be cheaper to
operate a ferrari. The one thing they did which i didnt get was they "dropped the carb".
Someone enighten me on that. The salt in the wound was that the dude who worked on my
bike was their part-time after school mechanic. Now, he might be a brilliant mechanic
but for that price i should have gotten someone more confidence inspiring.
Ok so heat is the main reason these engines dont last long? If i am not mistaken, the
Volkswagen Beetle is an air cooled engine - why do they last forever and a day?
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 11:53:44 -0500
To: chrislo@cfw.com
From: chrislo@cfw.com
Subject: moped math
> I want to say only this about the whole milage/maintanace issue, a
moped is like a woman, you get ém how you threat them, you can do it the
hardway or stay relaxed, it matters a lot.
all i can say is that after using a moped as primary source of
transportation for 24 months/20,000kms/at 40kmh (yes, in wintertime,
too) the honeymoon was definitely over. due to long exposure to wind
chill my knees are starting to grumble about divorce
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 12:03:08 -0500
To: chrislo@cfw.com
From: chrislo@cfw.com
Subject: (no subject)
>Replacement motors for Volkswagens are relatively cheap and easy to replace. air-cooled >engines tend to wear faster because of more heat.
tho beetles sold by the millions i don't see too many around anymore.
the gas mileage is also no longer what it used to be.
>I felt like i'd been really had. Since then i've done everything myself and will not >bother with bringing it in for these "checkups".
good thats what the moped is all about - diy. with a little help from
friends. a moped is really not that hard to figure out. easy as vw's to
fix ;)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 10:20:03 -0700
To: "'daugava@nothnbut.net'"
Subject: RE: Moped Joke
I'm sure you realize that there are women on this list. Additionally the
issue of weight is not unique to women!. I think this is inappropriate
for this moped list. IMHO
-----Original Message-----
From: daugava@nothnbut.net [SMTP:daugava@nothnbut.net]
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 1997 8:59 AM
To: Moped Mailing List
Subject: Re: Moped Joke
*************************************************
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 18:17:57 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: GeeeTeee@aol.com
Subject: Re: Moped Joke
Q: What do fat women and mopeds have in common?
A: They are both fun to ride till your friends find out!
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 18:26:00 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: paltron@interlog.com
Subject: Re: Mopeds in Norway
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 11:20:13 +0100
> To: Andrei Zaitsev
> Subject: Mopeds in Norway
> > At 16:41 18.12.97 -0600, you wrote:
> >> I want to Subschribe to the moped mailing list!
> >> Thank you!
> >Ok, you'll be in shortly!
> > > >BTW, it would be interesting to find out what's the
> >moped situation in Norway - how many are there, what kind of
> >people rides them, what are the regulations, etc.
> > > >Andrew
> > Hello!
> > In 1962 60000 mopeds was on the roads in Norway,today may be 15000. It is
> the youngest
> and the oldest people who drives mopeds in Norway, and some students too.
> You could drive in 60 km/h. Normaly the moped have 2,5 hp. You must pay a
> moped liability insurence, a registration fee and road licence. If your
> moped are 30 years old,you only need a moped liability insurence.
> You don`t pay road toll in the city. The season is from May to October.
> Some people drive in the winter too.(in the country).To day you can see
> Suzuki,Honda,Yamaha ,Java, some mopeds from Italy and some from the East on
> the roads.Some mopeds have been produced in Norway. Tempo,Raufoss, Termoped
> and some others.Tempo was the most popular moped, with Sachs engine.They
> stoped the production in 1985. I have a WWW side with this mopeds.
> http://www.phys.ntnu.no/~dagjoh
> Sorry , only Norwegian.> > > > >Sorry about my English,I was to lazy in scool.
> > Dagfinn.
> Dagfinn Johnsen.
Good report, but (again) Europeans refer to motorcycles as "mopeds".
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 18:27:07 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: paltron@interlog.com
Subject: Re: capabilities of 50cc
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 09:27:35 -0500
> To: chrislo@cfw.com
> From: chrislo@cfw.com
> Subject: Re: capabilities of 50cc
> > > > neato. the swedish zuendapp site the pics are from wasn't working
> > > properly - couldn't link.
> > What's the URL of swedish Zundapp site ?
> > The pics are so good-looking, I want to see more.
> > some are from various ads i started at forever as a kid. wish i still
> had the bike descriptions opposite the photos
> the link is
> > http://www.kjtools.se/zundapp
> > better look it up "manually" i keep getting javascript error
> fortunatley i downloaded all his pix of various zuednapp models
> > chris
> > p.s. i'm still ob the lookoput for a puch cobra gtl photo; the sleek
> puch equivalent of the zuendapp ks 50 watercooled
You can see a lot of these at the Moped Magazine "museum" section as
well
http://www.interlog.com/~paltron/moped
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 20:04:13 -0500
To: laurinj@videotron.ca
From: laurinj@videotron.ca
Subject: Re: Help!!!!!
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 17:48:35 -0800
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: bcjkand@direct.ca
> Subject: Help!!!!!
> > I own a motobecane moped an I despratly need piston rings for it. It is a
> 2 cycle 50cc caddy BP zoom and the are impossible to find please help.
> > Brad Anderson
> Bcjkand@direct.ca
Hi, can you tell me what year is your Caddy, I have a lot of parts here
(Montréal, Qc)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 20:34:08 -0500 (EST)
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: SPOT1717@aol.com
Subject: OIL injection
my moped friend said u can get OIL INJECTION for puch mopeds.
If u know any info or prices on this kit please email me.im also looking for
a PUCH MOPED COVER,THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 01:15:13 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Huvz@aol.com
Subject: Re: looking for Motobecane parts
Bob,
I was able to get what I needed for a '80 Moby @ Steve's moped & Bicycle in
NJ.
Thier e-mail is mopedmoped@aol.com. They can help with a manual too.
I am curious to know of a "motobecane
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 04:04:53 -0400 (EDT)
To: <199712180509.XAA27708@mail.valuenet.net> From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject: Re: New moped
If you can find a new PUCH (they're not out of business as SOME
real small and mini minded DEALERS HAVE MISLED ME TO BELIEVE), it will
cost as much as a TOMOS but I believe it to be better quality. You can't
beat the price of a Kinitic-but I have no experience with it so I can't
comment on the quality. I know of a couple of dealers in New Jersey who
actually stock these things-brand new (not out of business 15 years ago as
some trailess dealers have told me).
Michael Liu
On Wed, 17 Dec 1997 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> *************************************************
> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 23:31:49 -0500
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: DWCarpenter@webtv.net
> Subject: Re: New moped
> > > New mopeds......try a Kinetic or a Tomos. Thats all I can find anywhere
> near where I live. I think Kinetic has something to do with Honda, or
> at least used to.
> > >
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 04:17:29 -0400 (EDT)
To: <199712201638.KAA23909@mail.valuenet.net> From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject: Re: " help - motobecane piston"
Try Mickey's mopeds @ tomostomos@aol.com - he's got motobecane parts up
the you know what.
Michael Liu
On Sat, 20 Dec 1997 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> *************************************************
> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 21:02:00 EST
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: Wrnch@aol.com
> Subject: Re: " help - motobecane piston"
> > > I am desperatly looking for an asso werke's piston #2352 it came out of a
> motobecane with no identification on it, all attempts to look it up by
> application have frustratingly ended up in the wrong pistons!! Maybe a
> different cyclinder was installed ??? Any help or thoughts on my predicament
> would be welcome.
> > George @ Middletown Motorcycles
> WRNCH@aol.com
> > 802-235-BIKE (2453) Voice
> 802-235-9373 Fax
> > >
Date: 21 Dec 1997 08:20:43 -0800
To: "daugava@nothnbut.net"
Subject: Re: finding used puch parts
To @REPLY
To WILMET WILLIAM R METTEER From @INET (HO) Type N 12-16-97 12:02p
FROM: daugava@nothnbut.net
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Message-Id: <199712161955.NAA24555@mail.valuenet.net> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 15:22:30 -0800
Subject: Re: finding used puch parts
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To: "Moped Mailing List"
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:46:45 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Huvz@aol.com
Subject: Re: finding used puch parts
I have plenty of Puch used parts, what do you need?
I am in northern Ohio,
Scott H
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 21:16:21 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: AaronM428@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
In a message dated 97-12-18 01:07:17 EST, you write:
<< I think Tomos is shooting themselves in the foot telling people to
bring the bike in for service every 1000 miles. If i am not mistaken, the
Volkswagen Beetle is an air cooled engine - why do they last forever and a
day?
>>
Tomos does not say that. My dealer told me that except for things where I
have to disassemble parts of the chassis that I could do all the maintenance
myself. Even where disassembling was required he said if I had a mechanically
inclined neighbor with the right tools, I'd never have to bring the bike back
to the dealer. About the Beetle, yes it was powered by a cheep air-cooled
engine (nothing like the expensive, state-of-the-art, air-cooled engines in
Porsche 911's). However, the Beetle was purposely under-carbbed. It was
capable of twice the power it put out, but because it was running way under
capacity, wear was at a minimum (also, it was designed by a genius). Mopeds,
however, are carbbed for the best performance they can achieve within the law,
which usually results in the engines running somewhere near their maximum.
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 21:18:05 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: AaronM428@aol.com
Subject: Re: "Porting job for speed"
In a message dated 97-12-18 15:19:35 EST, you write:
<< Actually, it wasn't spilling hot coffee per se that triggered the lawsuit.
It was the abnormally high temperature that led to her needing skingrafts.
Apparently, McDonalds had far & away the hottest coffee out there. >>
Still, she was asking for it.
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 21:27:28 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: AaronM428@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
In a message dated 97-12-19 02:50:41 EST, you write:
<< A 2 cycle needs to opperate at high RPM before it makes much torque
& horsepower. More rpm increases ware & heat. That is just the nature of
the beast. >>
I have always know this, but why, exactly, is it so? What makes a 2-stroke a
high RPM engine?
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 21:33:46 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: AaronM428@aol.com
Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
In a message dated 97-12-20 11:55:55 EST, you write:
<< Also - do scooters use a different engine design? Do they last longer? Just
what is the difference between a scooter and a moped anyway - i dont get why
people make
such a big distinction - even people who know nothing at all about scooters
or mopeds. >>
Scooters tend to have more gears (4-5 vs. 1-2), available larger engines
(50-80cc vs. 50cc only), and can go faster (due to more gears and larger
engines). Also, many scooters now are 4-stroke. Scooters are seen (at lest
in the US) as a more primary means of transportation than mopeds. As such,
they are generally built more robustly than mopeds.
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 02:49:08 -0600 (CST)
To: cyclepro@evansville.net
From: cyclepro@evansville.net
Subject: Re: Super Tuning - Bob T's concerns
On 20 Dec 1997, daugava@nothnbut.net wrote...
>*************************************************
>Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 21:27:54 -0800 (PST)
>To: Moped Mailing List
>Subject: Re: Super Tuning - Bob T's concerns
> > > >RE: engine balancing- I thought that the only concern when balancing a
>single cylinder engine was how much counterweight you wanted to use?
>With 0% balance, the vibration was supposed to be inline with the piston
WITH ZERO COUNTER BALANCE THE OUT OF BALANCE CONDITION IS AT ITS MAXIMUM
AND CAUSES EXCESSIVE OPERATING LOADS ON BEARINGS, CRANKPIN, RODS ETC. YOU
HAVE SEEN A FAN, WASHING MACHINE OR TIRE GET OUT OF BALANCE AND START
SHAKING.
AS I REMEMBER THE LOADS INCREASE BY THE SQUARE ROOT OF THE RPM. SO 1oz
STATIC OUT OF BALANCE WOULD CAUSE AN 83oz OR 5 lb LOAD AT 7000RPM. THIS IS
A MAJOR CAUSE OF FAILURE.
AS I UNDERSTAND IT.... AT 100% COUNTER BALANCE THE ENGINE GETS SLUGISH
BECAUSE OF A SOME LOSS OF MOMENTUM BETWEEN POWER PULSES OR POWER STROKES.
THE AMOUNT VARIES DEPENDING ON THE WEIGHT OF THE FLYWHEELS & THE DEGREES OF
CRANKSHAFT ROTATION BETWEEN POWER PULSES.
RARE - BALANCE FACTORS CAN INDUCE HARMONIC RESONANCE OR SOME CALL IT
SIMPITHETIC VIBERATION. I HAVE ENCOUNED THIS TWICE. GETS SCAREY REAL QUICK.
THIS HAS TO DO WITH THE FREQUENCY OF THE VARIOUS MATERIALS & RPM. CARS
USUALLY HAVE A HARMONIC DAMPENER TO COMBAT THIS. I KNOW OF NO MOTORCYCLES
OR SCOOTERS THAT ARE PRODUCED WITH THESE BUT THEY ARE AVAILABLE FOR HARLEYS
AFTER MARKET AND I RUN THEM.
BALANCING CAN BE VERY COMPLEX. THERE ARE ATLEASTS SEVERAL FORCES THAT MAY
BECOME A FACTOR. MANUFACTURES USUALLY HAVE THIS WORKED OUT AT LEAST WELL
ENOUGH TO KEEP THE ENGINE FROM BEATING ITS SELF APART BEFORE THE WARRENTY
RUNS OUT. BUT WHEN MODIFING AN ENGINE LIKE GOING FROM 50cc TO 70cc YOU MAY
GET THINGS FAR ENOUGH OUT OF WHACK THAT YOU GOT A PROBLEM DEPENDING ON HOW
MUCH THE WEIGHT OF THE COMPONETS CHANGE. WHEN RUNING ANY THING HEAVIER THAN
STOCK PARTS OR INCREASED RPM I CHECK BALANCE & LOADS AND MAKE ADJUSTMENTS
TO THE BALANCE IN THE COUNTER WEIGHT AND THE FACTOR ....GREG
>travel, at 100% counter balance, the vibration is felt at a 90 degree
>angle to the piston travel. Weights between 0% and 100% move the
>vibration between 0 degrees and 90 degrees. Are there other concerns that
>I'm not aware of? I realize that the percieved vibration changes with the
>counterweight percentage, engine mounting and cylinder layout (horizontal,
>vertical or in between).
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:40:04 -0500
To: Moped Mailing List
Subject: Re: "Porting job for speed"
On Wed, 10 Dec 1997 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> *************************************************
> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:47:48 -0500
> To: chrislo@cfw.com
> From: chrislo@cfw.com
> Subject: "Porting job for speed"
> > > > > > Hans Hartman's "porting job for speed" article is now available
> > a hypothetical question: you eagerly take the cylinder off your zuendapp
> zd 25 for the first time and the piston doesn't have a "skirt" i.e. it
> has no "windows" on the sides. now what?
> bonus question: i keep wondering how all you puch owners pronounce the
> name? "puck" or "pook" i assume?
> > > im a puch owner,... i've always reffered to it as poo-ch like smooch
or sometimes i say puke. there both probably wrong. but o-well.
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 15:14:40 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: paltron@interlog.com
Subject: Re: Mopeds in Norway
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 11:20:13 +0100
> To: Andrei Zaitsev
> Subject: Mopeds in Norway
> > At 16:41 18.12.97 -0600, you wrote:
> >> I want to Subschribe to the moped mailing list!
> >> Thank you!
> >Ok, you'll be in shortly!
> > > >BTW, it would be interesting to find out what's the
> >moped situation in Norway - how many are there, what kind of
> >people rides them, what are the regulations, etc.
> > > >Andrew
> > Hello!
> > In 1962 60000 mopeds was on the roads in Norway,today may be 15000. It is
> the youngest
> and the oldest people who drives mopeds in Norway, and some students too.
> You could drive in 60 km/h. Normaly the moped have 2,5 hp. You must pay a
> moped liability insurence, a registration fee and road licence. If your
> moped are 30 years old,you only need a moped liability insurence.
> You don`t pay road toll in the city. The season is from May to October.
> Some people drive in the winter too.(in the country).To day you can see
> Suzuki,Honda,Yamaha ,Java, some mopeds from Italy and some from the East on
> the roads.Some mopeds have been produced in Norway. Tempo,Raufoss, Termoped
> and some others.Tempo was the most popular moped, with Sachs engine.They
> stoped the production in 1985. I have a WWW side with this mopeds.
> http://www.phys.ntnu.no/~dagjoh
> Sorry , only Norwegian.> > > > >Sorry about my English,I was to lazy in scool.
> > Dagfinn.
> Dagfinn Johnsen.
The site is dead. Too many javascript errors. It's also in Norwegian and
the pics are all motorcycles, not mopeds.
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 15:33:18 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Dashaun84@aol.com
Subject: Re: Moped Joke
That was a halaireous joke do you have any more
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 04:29:13 -0800
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: proof@idt.net
Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> Also - do scooters use a different engine design? Do they last longer? Just
> what is the difference between a scooter and a moped anyway - i dont get why
> people make
> such a big distinction - even people who know nothing at all about scooters
> or mopeds.
> > *you really didn't get it é
> > Bye, Peter Staal
ok i don't get what you mean by your comment - "you really dont get it
e?"
What I am trying to determine here is whether the moped is in fact a
false economy. Can someone please tell me how many miles or kms i can
expect out of my moped? I have asked many people and no one will give me
a straight answer. To say that i might hit a car tomorrow and total the
moped is an irrelevant comment. I am interested in generalities here.
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 12:29:42 -0800 (PST)
To: Moped Mailing List
Subject: RE: Moped Joke
> *************************************************
> Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 10:20:03 -0700
> To: "'daugava@nothnbut.net'"
> Subject: RE: Moped Joke
> > > I'm sure you realize that there are women on this list. Additionally the
> issue of weight is not unique to women!. I think this is inappropriate
> for this moped list. IMHO
>
I disagree.
-Dave
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:11:26 -0600
To: "Mailing List"
Subject: Fixing a Puch
-------- reply to Alok Ghosh [Filter]
hi,. ya its me alok from toronto. the guy who owns the puch and has no
clue how to get it werking.
well seems like i'm not getting my 33.6 fer awhile, so sign me up
again. Now that i have no skool
i'll have time to download all the messages. :)
i hope to get my moped werking before skool starts up on jan 5th. you
think a 17 yr old fool
who knows nuthing about engines can fix a moped??? or are they
difficult?
its the engine part that i need help in, everything else like brakes,
etc and easy.!
i think the engine is siezed.
so,. ya sign me up!
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 15:30:20 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: BigA3755@aol.com
Subject: Re: Moped Joke
i agree with you..i am a female
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:52:53 -0600
To: "Mailing List"
Subject: Re: Moped Joke
While this joke is pretty tasteless, it does bring up a good point, namely
this:
How limited are person's choices if he cannot do what he loves because
somebody
else disapproves.
Andrew
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 15:02:38 -0600
To: "Mailing List"
Subject: Fw: French Vintage Moped Club
-------- reply to rondouin olivier
We are a french vintage moped club : Le club Francais
du cyclo-sport. This club was created in 1988 for the
collectible moped enthusiasts. Now, we have about 250
members. We are interested in all moped marks e.g.
Zundapp, Kreidler, Puch, Motobecane,Jawa, Tomos,
Itom, Malaguti, Derbi, ...
We are looking for contacts with foreign vintage
moped's clubs. Our purpose is to create a moped's
network for exchange documents, tricks, spare parts,
...
You can visit our Web site :
www.geocities.com/motorcity/speedway/7767/ and send
me an E-mail at cfcs@rocketmail.com
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 16:03:34 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: BigA3755@aol.com
Subject: beginner info
Hi! Im new to this moped thing and would like someone to give me some
info...what kinds are out their? how much are they? what brands ? ect.
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 16:42:43 -0500
To: chrislo@cfw.com
From: chrislo@cfw.com
Subject: Re: Moped Joke
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 15:30:20 EST
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: BigA3755@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Moped Joke
> > i agree with you..i am a female
hey some of us dont care what our buddies think
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 16:45:33 -0500
To: chrislo@cfw.com
From: chrislo@cfw.com
Subject: Re: Moped Joke
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:52:53 -0600
> To: "Mailing List"
> Subject: Re: Moped Joke
> > While this joke is pretty tasteless, it does bring up a good point, namely
> this:
> How limited are person's choices if he cannot do what he loves because
> somebody
> else disapproves.
> > Andrew
amen. tho this could include folks who like to tell jokes.
keep this a pc free site
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 17:09:53 -0500
To: Moped Mailing List
Subject: Re: finding used puch parts
On Tue, 23 Dec 1997 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> *************************************************
> Date: 21 Dec 1997 08:20:43 -0800
> To: "daugava@nothnbut.net"
> Subject: Re: finding used puch parts
> > > To @REPLY
eh!,.. ya i need parts!.. i need the right crank and bolt for the crank
and that 4 way fuel switch. mine leaks. do you have that
run/off switch? mine werks, but the switch is broken, so i leave it at ON
all the time, the moped does not werk if course, but im werking on it.
> > To WILMET WILLIAM R METTEER From @INET (HO) Type N 12-16-97 12:02p
> FROM: daugava@nothnbut.net
> Received: from mf.safeco.com by ho_sv008.safeco.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1459.59)
> id Y97YM576; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 11:59:03 -0800
> Received: by safe.safeco.com; id MAA19314; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 12:00:36 -0800 (PST)
> From:
> id xma019182; Tue, 16 Dec 97 12:00:21 -0800
> Received: from mail.valuenet.net (ppp8.valuenet.net [207.230.63.9])
> by mail.valuenet.net (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP
> id NAA24555; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 13:55:51 -0600
> Message-Id: <199712161955.NAA24555@mail.valuenet.net> > Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 15:22:30 -0800
> Subject: Re: finding used puch parts
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> To: "Moped Mailing List"
> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:46:45 EST
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: Huvz@aol.com
> Subject: Re: finding used puch parts
> > I have plenty of Puch used parts, what do you need?
> I am in northern Ohio,
> Scott H
> > >
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 16:58:31 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Jtovet@aol.com
Subject: Manual needed for 78 Puch
Hi, does anyone know where I can scare up a manual for a 1978 Puch ?????
Thanks
Jim
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 16:46:16 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Jtovet@aol.com
Subject: Puch
Hi ....my son has a 1978 Puch Moped. It needs some work, and for xmas I would
like to help him out. The worse thing wrong with it is it needs rings.
What's left is the following:
Brakes front and rear
Good tune up
Air filter
Throttle control at handle bars...
misc, stuff like mirrors, and back tire, and brake lights...
My question is this. I live out on Cape Cod MA, and I don't know if I should
be looking for a good shop who could get this thing going at a reasonable
price, or maybe I should be looking for a couple of parts bikes, so that we
could do it ourselves. I'm a bit concerned about installing the rings, and
brakes, and feel that maybe a qualified shop is the answer. However, as I
said, it is a 78, and I don't want to sink a fortune into it. Maybe, I could
get a shop to do the rings, and brakes, and then we could do the rest. I am
looking for ideas. If anyone knows a good shop within say 100 miles of the
Cape that would be good, if anyone has a bike they want to sell.....then that
would be good....however, I have to take into consideration travel time....
Well, thanks for listening, if you can think of something that I haven't
thought of ....then I'm open rto all and any suggestions.
Jim (Dad) and Andy
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 17:22:00 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: SUPRDAVE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Moped Joke
Remember kids, these are PC times. We can't do this sort of thing. 8-P
<< > I'm sure you realize that there are women on this list. Additionally the
> issue of weight is not unique to women!. I think this is inappropriate
> for this moped list. IMHO
>
> I disagree.
>-Dave >>
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 18:48:47 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: paltron@interlog.com
Subject: Re: New moped
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 04:04:53 -0400 (EDT)
> To: <199712180509.XAA27708@mail.valuenet.net> > From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
> Subject: Re: New moped
> > If you can find a new PUCH (they're not out of business as SOME
> real small and mini minded DEALERS HAVE MISLED ME TO BELIEVE), it will
> cost as much as a TOMOS but I believe it to be better quality. You can't
> beat the price of a Kinitic-but I have no experience with it so I can't
> comment on the quality. I know of a couple of dealers in New Jersey who
> actually stock these things-brand new (not out of business 15 years ago as
> some trailess dealers have told me).
> > Michael Liu
> > On Wed, 17 Dec 1997 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > > *************************************************
> > Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 23:31:49 -0500
> > To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> > From: DWCarpenter@webtv.net
> > Subject: Re: New moped
> > > > > > New mopeds......try a Kinetic or a Tomos. Thats all I can find anywhere
> > near where I live. I think Kinetic has something to do with Honda, or
> > at least used to.
> > > > > > Puch mopeds new? No. Manufacturers using Puch engine derivatives, like
Corrado, Babetta, or Hero in India, yes.
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 00:22:31 +0100
To:
Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
>Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > >In a message dated 97-12-20 11:55:55 EST, you write:
> ><< Also - do scooters use a different engine design? Do they last longer?
Just
> what is the difference between a scooter and a moped anyway - i dont get
why
> people make
> such a big distinction - even people who know nothing at all about
scooters
> or mopeds. >> > >Scooters tend to have more gears (4-5 vs. 1-2), available larger engines
>(50-80cc vs. 50cc only), and can go faster (due to more gears and larger
>engines). Also, many scooters now are 4-stroke. Scooters are seen (at
lest
>in the US) as a more primary means of transportation than mopeds. As such,
>they are generally built more robustly than mopeds.
> Grmpf scooters more robust than mopeds?, ok most scooters are better
constructed than the ciao vespa but can withstand competition with any puch
maxi and are far more bendable than an "off the road" type of moped, in most
cases the robust looks from a scooter is "í fooled you " plastic and the
real frame are 3 or 4 1/2" tubes the only strong thing is the back-fork
with the motor on it.
the main reason they go so fast is that the new scooters use new moped tech.
and have that what was top-sport gear for 15/20 years ago. rotating inlet,
hyper porting, good gear ratios , and good exhausts, forced lubricating, etc
.. If the law lets you.....
Bye, Peter Staal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Email: staal@concepts.nl
Home: http://home.concepts.nl/~staal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 01:03:43 +0100
To:
Subject: Re: Super Tuning - Bob T's concerns
>RARE - BALANCE FACTORS CAN INDUCE HARMONIC RESONANCE OR SOME CALL IT
>SIMPITHETIC VIBERATION. I HAVE ENCOUNED THIS TWICE. GETS SCAREY REAL QUICK.
>THIS HAS TO DO WITH THE FREQUENCY OF THE VARIOUS MATERIALS & RPM. CARS
>USUALLY HAVE A HARMONIC DAMPENER TO COMBAT THIS. I KNOW OF NO MOTORCYCLES
>OR SCOOTERS THAT ARE PRODUCED WITH THESE BUT THEY ARE AVAILABLE
How does it tamper the vibes ? absorb in rubber? in the simple and small
construction of and moped block i can't imagine how to put in some things
extra (ok, small things on a few places) .
----------------------------------
>BALANCING CAN BE VERY COMPLEX. THERE ARE ATLEASTS SEVERAL FORCES THAT MAY
>BECOME A FACTOR. MANUFACTURES USUALLY HAVE THIS WORKED OUT AT LEAST WELL
>ENOUGH TO KEEP THE ENGINE FROM BEATING ITS SELF APART BEFORE THE WARRENTY
>RUNS OUT. BUT WHEN MODIFING AN ENGINE LIKE GOING FROM 50cc TO 70cc YOU MAY
>GET THINGS FAR ENOUGH OUT OF WHACK THAT YOU GOT A PROBLEM DEPENDING ON HOW
>MUCH THE WEIGHT OF THE COMPONETS CHANGE. WHEN RUNING ANY THING HEAVIER THAN
>STOCK PARTS OR INCREASED RPM I CHECK BALANCE & LOADS AND MAKE ADJUSTMENTS
>TO THE BALANCE IN THE COUNTER WEIGHT AND THE FACTOR ....GREG
Hi Greg,
By changing from 50 to 70 cc it is mostly not an real issue to balance more
at the counter weights. A 50 cc street moped motor is made on the basis of a
reasonable margin / always good 'proto'type and mostly produce between .4
and 3 hp a normal 70 cc gives also 3 hp and give only more wear and tear on
the bearings and stress in /of the crackshaft and rod. the piston weight is
mostly approx. equal (or at least i have seen more difference between 2
'same'pistons)
Due to the small cylinder cont. a small crank room is advisable to gain a
good pre-compression ratio (1:2 or 3) and full crank counterweights are used
all extra space not needed to allow rotation is worked out up to 0,5 mm,
filled with alu- sheed or welded-up and fraised securely again. it so well
adviced to use an 'light-weight' piston in a 70cc kit, but that is always
good :-).
When tuning and rpm and power are gained, than it could become an issue but
the 'standard' fast replacements are mostly factory 'tuned' and perform
neutral (and are mostly not the cause of the trouble afterward, the rest
desintegrates more rapidly :) ), so crankshaft / flywheels, complete are
already ok for me so far. but i agree that when real performance is needed a
complete view of all forces must be included, and when done to the limit
ultimately only for 1 rpm with a small band of tolerable behaviour, to make
shifting possible. hard working on a circuit...:-).
Bye, Peter Staal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Email: staal@concepts.nl
Home: http://home.concepts.nl/~staal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 01:04:18 +0100
To:
Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: daugava@nothnbut.net
Onderwerp: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
>*************************************************
>Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 21:27:28 EST
>To: daugava@nothnbut.net
>From: AaronM428@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
> > >In a message dated 97-12-19 02:50:41 EST, you write:
> ><< A 2 cycle needs to opperate at high RPM before it makes much torque
> & horsepower. More rpm increases ware & heat. That is just the nature of
> the beast. >> > >I have always know this, but why, exactly, is it so? What makes a 2-stroke
a
>high RPM engine?
> > > tuning ?
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 01:26:46 +0100
To:
Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: daugava@nothnbut.net
Onderwerp: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
*************************************************
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 04:29:13 -0800
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: proof@idt.net
Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> Also - do scooters use a different engine design? Do they last longer?
Just
> what is the difference between a scooter and a moped anyway - i dont get
why
> people make
> such a big distinction - even people who know nothing at all about
scooters
> or mopeds.
> > *you really didn't get it é
> > Bye, Peter Staal
ok i don't get what you mean by your comment - "you really dont get it
e?"
What I am trying to determine here is whether the moped is in fact a
false economy. Can someone please tell me how many miles or kms i can
expect out of my moped? I have asked many people and no one will give me
a straight answer. To say that i might hit a car tomorrow and total the
moped is an irrelevant comment. I am interested in generalities here.
What answer do you want ?
it seen you want THE answer that says yes or no to some thing you have in
mind,
and a real answer ain't out there :) .
in the tomos manual (the service bible) also on one of my pages it says
about a partial checkup at 500, 1500, 3000, 6000, 9000 (a large one), 12000,
15000,18000 total renovation almost, after renovation cycle starts again,
how is that for an answer, no personal influence in it at all.
I think you want some views to relativate you hunger for facts :
do they cost money YES
do they polute YES
can they be stolen YES
can you crash badly YES
can you drive safe home every day YES
can you beat the local speed limit YES
does it take time for care YES
does it safe time every second you sit on it YES
does it safe money compared to a car YES
does it save money compared to public transport YES
does it prevent you from long walking YES (when running ;( )
any more suggestions out there ?
Bye, Peter Staal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Email: staal@concepts.nl
Home: http://home.concepts.nl/~staal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 22:03:14 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: AaronM428@aol.com
Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
In a message dated 97-12-23 21:03:19 EST, you write:
<< .. If the law lets you..... >>
Exactly. The law allows scooters to be faster, therefore they are; carry two
people, therefore they are built to; etc, etc. . . (For those of you who
sprechen Deutsch, "usw.".)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 22:00:23 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: AaronM428@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
In a message dated 97-12-23 21:03:16 EST, you write:
<< >I have always know this, but why, exactly, is it so? What makes a
2-stroke
a
>high RPM engine?
> > > tuning ? >>
Then why not tune them otherwise? My understanding was that nothing could
counter the 2-cycle being a high RPM engine.
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 22:27:10 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: GeeeTeee@aol.com
Subject: Re: Moped Joke
In a message dated 97-12-23 15:36:53 EST, you write:
<<
>> One of many problems living in the USA is that everyone can be offended by
almost anything. When I put this joke on the mailing list I knew I would get
some negative feedback. I wish everyone would just take this joke lightly and
tell their friends
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 22:38:47 -0800
To:
Subject: Re: beginner info
i am a moped dealer in southern ohio. selling tomos and majestic mopeds.
prices run from $895.00 to $1395.00 send address and i will mail you some
literature. tony twein@bright.net
-----Original Message-----
From: daugava@nothnbut.net
Subject: beginner info
>*************************************************
>Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 16:03:34 EST
>To: daugava@nothnbut.net
>From: BigA3755@aol.com
>Subject: beginner info
> > >Hi! Im new to this moped thing and would like someone to give me some
>info...what kinds are out their? how much are they? what brands ? ect.
> > >
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 20:27:50 -0800 (PST)
To: Moped Mailing List
Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
> > << A 2 cycle needs to opperate at high RPM before it makes much torque
> & horsepower. More rpm increases ware & heat. That is just the nature of
> the beast. >> > > I have always know this, but why, exactly, is it so? What makes a 2-stroke a
> high RPM engine?
There is nothing in a 2 stroke that makes it a "high rpm engine". Marine
diesels operate at under 100 rpm- of course they are huge. It's the carb
sizing, port area and configuration and pipe dimensions that determine the
rpm and power characteristics of the engine. Enduro engines are tuned for
wide power bands and smooth torque delivery- of course, the high rpm
power suffers. Actually, most moped 50cc engines make peak power at around
6000-8000 rpm, low for such a small engine. Racing 50cc engines make peak
power at 18000-20000 rpm. Most moped engines are legally restricted in
power output to 2.5-3.5 HP, depending on local laws. My 50cc scooter is
quoted to make 3hp at 7200 rpm. According to the "Two Stroke Tuner's
Handbook", an air cooled, 50cc engine with a 3 or 5 port layout should be
able to make between 5 and 7 HP at 7200 rpm. Potentially twice the stock
horse power at the same stock rpm. The piston speed at 7200 rpm works out
to 1/2 of the safe maximum piston speed recommended for a road engine.
Mopeds really have mildly tuned engines and they should last a long time
with normal use and maintenance.
-Dave
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 20:48:09 -0800 (PST)
To: Moped Mailing List
Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
On Tue, 23 Dec 1997 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > What I am trying to determine here is whether the moped is in fact a
> false economy. Can someone please tell me how many miles or kms i can
> expect out of my moped? I have asked many people and no one will give me
> a straight answer. To say that i might hit a car tomorrow and total the
> moped is an irrelevant comment. I am interested in generalities here.
No manufacturer of any transportation that I know of will quote a number
of miles that engine should last. The closest thing that I've seen are
figures that quote mean time to overhaul. For stationary engines, I've
seen 1500 hours mean time between overhaul quoted. For a car engine that
equals about 90000 miles at 60 miles an hour. The FAA requires periodic
teardowns of aircraft piston engines at 1000 hours (?) I think.
Two strokes that are used in scooters and motorcycles are fairly high
maintenance. THey coke up because of the 2 stroke oil, they need freqeunt
tune ups, they often suffer from neglect, they are sensitive to jetting
and can be seizure prone if the jetting is off or if air seals leak(from
age). If used at high rpm, the rings wear quickly. The benefits of the 2
stroke are that they are cheap, make good horsepower for the size of the
engine, they are simple and easy to maintain, rebuilds are cheap. They
actually tend to get poor fuel efficiency but because the engine
and bike are so small, fuel costs are pretty low.
It's impossible to predict the life of the engine. Even if you
can find a manufacturers quoted mean time between overhaul, your engine
might fall significantly above or below the mean. Production tolerances
prevent the engines from being exactly the same and the manufacturer has
little control over the end use. The only thing you can do is to take care
of your engine so that it lasts as long as possible.
-Dave
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 20:52:15 -0800 (PST)
To: Moped Mailing List
Subject: Re: Fixing a Puch
> i hope to get my moped werking before skool starts up on jan 5th. you
> think a 17 yr old fool
> who knows nuthing about engines can fix a moped??? or are they
> difficult?
> its the engine part that i need help in, everything else like brakes,
> etc and easy.!
Well, whether you're a fool or or not remains to be seen but there is no
easier or cheaper kind of transportation to work on than a moped. If you
are at all interested in learning some mechanical skills, a moped is
perfect.
-Dave
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 00:21:05 -0500
To: Kowiachobee.WORLDNET.ATT.NET@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
From: Kowiachobee.WORLDNET.ATT.NET@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: Moped Joke
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 16:42:43 -0500
> To: chrislo@cfw.com
> From: chrislo@cfw.com
> Subject: Re: Moped Joke
> > daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > > > *************************************************
> > Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 15:30:20 EST
> > To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> > From: BigA3755@aol.com
> > Subject: Re: Moped Joke
> > > > i agree with you..i am a female
> > hey some of us dont care what our buddies think
By the way, we just want to wish all of you on the moped mailing list a
wonderful holiday season....Alene & Tim from Ft. Myers...
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 09:42:11 -0800
To: "Moped Mail"
Subject: Xmas
Wishing everyone on the mailing list a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New
Year. Tony
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 21:52:52 -0800
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: proof@idt.net
Subject: Re: moped math
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 11:53:44 -0500
> To: chrislo@cfw.com
> From: chrislo@cfw.com
> Subject: moped math
> > > I want to say only this about the whole milage/maintanace issue, a
> moped is like a woman, you get ém how you threat them, you can do it the
> hardway or stay relaxed, it matters a lot.
> > all i can say is that after using a moped as primary source of
> transportation for 24 months/20,000kms/at 40kmh (yes, in wintertime,
> too) the honeymoon was definitely over. due to long exposure to wind
> chill my knees are starting to grumble about divorce
Haha. Hey you got to take advantage of today's hi tech fabrics. I am a
camper/hiker. Do the following. First layer - polypropylene underwear.
Layer 2 - fleece pants and shirt. Layer 3 - nylon or goretex shell. you
can add more layers of fleece if needed. of course hat, gloves,
balaclava/face mask. trust me.
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 21:59:09 -0800
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: proof@idt.net
Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 21:16:21 EST
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: AaronM428@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
> > In a message dated 97-12-18 01:07:17 EST, you write:
> > << I think Tomos is shooting themselves in the foot telling people to
> bring the bike in for service every 1000 miles. If i am not mistaken, the
> Volkswagen Beetle is an air cooled engine - why do they last forever and a
> day?
> >> > > Tomos does not say that. My dealer told me that except for things where I
> have to disassemble parts of the chassis that I could do all the maintenance
> myself. Even where disassembling was required he said if I had a mechanically
> inclined neighbor with the right tools, I'd never have to bring the bike back
> to the dealer. About the Beetle, yes it was powered by a cheep air-cooled
> engine (nothing like the expensive, state-of-the-art, air-cooled engines in
> Porsche 911's). However, the Beetle was purposely under-carbbed. It was
> capable of twice the power it put out, but because it was running way under
> capacity, wear was at a minimum (also, it was designed by a genius). Mopeds,
> however, are carbbed for the best performance they can achieve within the law,
> which usually results in the engines running somewhere near their maximum.
ok that explains it about the beetle. Ok yes the tomos manual constantly
talks about bringing it in every thousand miles (repeat biz for
dealers?). OK i am a mechanical illiterate so i am very encouraged to
hear you say i can ride with confidence with just the normal maintenance
and not bring it in. yes i think even i could learn to do everything
except maybe the trans - i would bring it in for that. thanx
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 22:12:20 -0800
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: proof@idt.net
Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 01:26:46 +0100
> To:
> Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: daugava@nothnbut.net
> Onderwerp: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > *************************************************
> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 04:29:13 -0800
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: proof@idt.net
> Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > > Also - do scooters use a different engine design? Do they last longer?
> Just
> > what is the difference between a scooter and a moped anyway - i dont get
> why
> > people make
> > such a big distinction - even people who know nothing at all about
> scooters
> > or mopeds.
> > > > *you really didn't get it é
> > > > Bye, Peter Staal
> > ok i don't get what you mean by your comment - "you really dont get it
> e?"
> > What I am trying to determine here is whether the moped is in fact a
> false economy. Can someone please tell me how many miles or kms i can
> expect out of my moped? I have asked many people and no one will give me
> a straight answer. To say that i might hit a car tomorrow and total the
> moped is an irrelevant comment. I am interested in generalities here.
> > What answer do you want ?
> it seen you want THE answer that says yes or no to some thing you have in
> mind,
> and a real answer ain't out there :) .
> in the tomos manual (the service bible) also on one of my pages it says
> about a partial checkup at 500, 1500, 3000, 6000, 9000 (a large one), 12000,
> 15000,18000 total renovation almost, after renovation cycle starts again,
> how is that for an answer, no personal influence in it at all.
> I think you want some views to relativate you hunger for facts :
> > do they cost money YES
> do they polute YES
> can they be stolen YES
> can you crash badly YES
> can you drive safe home every day YES
> can you beat the local speed limit YES
> does it take time for care YES
> does it safe time every second you sit on it YES
> does it safe money compared to a car YES
> does it save money compared to public transport YES
> does it prevent you from long walking YES (when running ;( )
> any more suggestions out there ?
> > Bye, Peter Staal
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Email: staal@concepts.nl
> Home: http://home.concepts.nl/~staal
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK i'm sorry for being a pain in the ass about this cost thing. I am
merely pursuing this out of my own obsession with cost compared with
other modes of transport the way other people on here talk about the
minutia of tuning. I am a new moped owner and was trying to get a general
picture of what other people's long term cost have been. In your other
message to me about costs you concluded that you spent between 11 cents
and 30 something cents per mile on your 2 mopeds. Sorry, that is NOT
cheaper than mass transit. It is cheaper than a car up to about 30 cents.
Thank you for your patience.
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:08:02 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: paltron@interlog.com
Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 01:26:46 +0100
> To:
> Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: daugava@nothnbut.net
> Onderwerp: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > *************************************************
> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 04:29:13 -0800
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: proof@idt.net
> Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > > Also - do scooters use a different engine design? Do they last longer?
> Just
> > what is the difference between a scooter and a moped anyway - i dont get
> why
> > people make
> > such a big distinction - even people who know nothing at all about
> scooters
> > or mopeds.
> > > > *you really didn't get it é
> > > > Bye, Peter Staal
> > ok i don't get what you mean by your comment - "you really dont get it
> e?"
> > What I am trying to determine here is whether the moped is in fact a
> false economy. Can someone please tell me how many miles or kms i can
> expect out of my moped? I have asked many people and no one will give me
> a straight answer. To say that i might hit a car tomorrow and total the
> moped is an irrelevant comment. I am interested in generalities here.
> > What answer do you want ?
> it seen you want THE answer that says yes or no to some thing you have in
> mind,
> and a real answer ain't out there :) .
> in the tomos manual (the service bible) also on one of my pages it says
> about a partial checkup at 500, 1500, 3000, 6000, 9000 (a large one), 12000,
> 15000,18000 total renovation almost, after renovation cycle starts again,
> how is that for an answer, no personal influence in it at all.
> I think you want some views to relativate you hunger for facts :
> > do they cost money YES
> do they polute YES
> can they be stolen YES
> can you crash badly YES
> can you drive safe home every day YES
> can you beat the local speed limit YES
> does it take time for care YES
> does it safe time every second you sit on it YES
> does it safe money compared to a car YES
> does it save money compared to public transport YES
> does it prevent you from long walking YES (when running ;( )
> any more suggestions out there ?
> > Bye, Peter Staal
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Email: staal@concepts.nl
> Home: http://home.concepts.nl/~staal
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can reasonably expect fuel economy between 150-200 miles to the
gallon on any 49cc engine. Racing-type starts, revving the engine always
to the max costs excessive gasoline consumption just like with cars.
And my good friend Peter left out an important questio in his summary:
are they fun to ride? YES
Merry Christmas or whatever you celebrate to all
PA
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:18:36 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: AaronM428@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
In a message dated 97-12-24 14:59:05 EST, you write:
<< i think even i could learn to do everything
except maybe the trans - i would bring it in for that. thanx
>> Yes, definately bring the moped to the dealer for transmission work, trannies
are notoriously difficult to work on.
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:26:59 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: AaronM428@aol.com
Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
In a message dated 97-12-24 14:59:06 EST, you write:
<< OK i'm sorry for being a pain in the ass about this cost thing. I am
merely pursuing this out of my own obsession with cost compared with
other modes of transport the way other people on here talk about the
minutia of tuning. I am a new moped owner and was trying to get a general
picture of what other people's long term cost have been. In your other
message to me about costs you concluded that you spent between 11 cents
and 30 something cents per mile on your 2 mopeds. Sorry, that is NOT
cheaper than mass transit. It is cheaper than a car up to about 30 cents.
Thank you for your patience. >>
The only money that I have put into my Targa LX was for gas (maybe $5,
probably less) oil ($10) and tranny fluid ($5) in 500+ miles. And I haven't
used all the oil, my oil costs will go down because I stopped using synthetic.
If I assume 6,000 miles total, then it costs about 23.5 cents per mile. (3.5
cents if you don't count initial cost)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:48:29 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: SUPRDAVE@aol.com
Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
with my personal experiences, my cost for ownership has been neligable, in my
opinion. there are no bus routes where i live so i cannot compare that against
my moped and scooter. really, the only thing i spend money is is gas and oil.
well, flat tires too; i seem to get them all the time on my scooter, never on
the moped. sometimes i will buy a new part like turn lenses, or maintenance
parts like air filter and spark plugs, but i'd say its certainly cheaper than
my truck. here in north carolina, all you need to do is wear a helmet when on
your moped. i ride mainly just to enjoy a warm day and explore, or to go
someplace close by thats just too much trouble driving my truck.
david
<<
OK i'm sorry for being a pain in the ass about this cost thing. I am
merely pursuing this out of my own obsession with cost compared with
other modes of transport the way other people on here talk about the
minutia of tuning. I am a new moped owner and was trying to get a general
picture of what other people's long term cost have been. In your other
message to me about costs you concluded that you spent between 11 cents
and 30 something cents per mile on your 2 mopeds. Sorry, that is NOT
cheaper than mass transit. It is cheaper than a car up to about 30 cents.
Thank you for your patience. >>
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 19:11:39 -0500
To: chrislo@cfw.com
From: chrislo@cfw.com
Subject: Re: Moped Joke
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 22:27:10 EST
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: GeeeTeee@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Moped Joke
> > In a message dated 97-12-23 15:36:53 EST, you write:
> > <<
> >> > One of many problems living in the USA is that everyone can be offended by
> almost anything. When I put this joke on the mailing list I knew I would get
> some negative feedback. I wish everyone would just take this joke lightly and
> tell their friends
take my fat girlfriend "lightly"? well theres another distasteful snide
little off-center remark there. haha!
really, americans are indeed losing their sense of humor (should we
blame pauly shore alone?) i hated the absence of humor in germany now i
have to deal with this pc crap. best thing to do is jump on the moped
and let them all kiss my butt.
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 19:16:24 -0500
To: chrislo@cfw.com
From: chrislo@cfw.com
Subject: Re: moped math
> Haha. Hey you got to take advantage of today's hi tech fabrics. I am a
> camper/hiker. Do the following. First layer - polypropylene underwear.
> Layer 2 - fleece pants and shirt. Layer 3 - nylon or goretex shell. you
> can add more layers of fleece if needed. of course hat, gloves,
> balaclava/face mask. trust me.
well its too late for that already; i wouldn't thhink of riding in the
winter anymore, even with helmet longjohns and "kidney belt". but wind
chill can hurt you real bad even if you don't feel it right away. folks
should bundle up i agree.
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 01:41:02 +0100
To:
Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: daugava@nothnbut.net
Onderwerp: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
*************************************************
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 22:12:20 -0800
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: proof@idt.net
Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 01:26:46 +0100
> To:
> Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: daugava@nothnbut.net
> Onderwerp: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > *************************************************
> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 04:29:13 -0800
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: proof@idt.net
> Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > > Also - do scooters use a different engine design? Do they last longer?
> Just
> > what is the difference between a scooter and a moped anyway - i dont get
> why
> > people make
> > such a big distinction - even people who know nothing at all about
> scooters
> > or mopeds.
> > > > *you really didn't get it é
> > > > Bye, Peter Staal
> > ok i don't get what you mean by your comment - "you really dont get it
> e?"
> > What I am trying to determine here is whether the moped is in fact a
> false economy. Can someone please tell me how many miles or kms i can
> expect out of my moped? I have asked many people and no one will give me
> a straight answer. To say that i might hit a car tomorrow and total the
> moped is an irrelevant comment. I am interested in generalities here.
> > What answer do you want ?
> it seen you want THE answer that says yes or no to some thing you have in
> mind,
> and a real answer ain't out there :) .
> in the tomos manual (the service bible) also on one of my pages it says
> about a partial checkup at 500, 1500, 3000, 6000, 9000 (a large one),
12000,
> 15000,18000 total renovation almost, after renovation cycle starts again,
> how is that for an answer, no personal influence in it at all.
> I think you want some views to relativate you hunger for facts :
> > do they cost money YES
> do they polute YES
> can they be stolen YES
> can you crash badly YES
> can you drive safe home every day YES
> can you beat the local speed limit YES
> does it take time for care YES
> does it safe time every second you sit on it YES
> does it safe money compared to a car YES
> does it save money compared to public transport YES
> does it prevent you from long walking YES (when running ;( )
> any more suggestions out there ?
> > Bye, Peter Staal
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Email: staal@concepts.nl
> Home: http://home.concepts.nl/~staal
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK i'm sorry for being a pain in the ass about this cost thing. I am
merely pursuing this out of my own obsession with cost compared with
other modes of transport the way other people on here talk about the
minutia of tuning. I am a new moped owner and was trying to get a general
picture of what other people's long term cost have been. In your other
message to me about costs you concluded that you spent between 11 cents
and 30 something cents per mile on your 2 mopeds. Sorry, that is NOT
cheaper than mass transit. It is cheaper than a car up to about 30 cents.
Thank you for your patience.
No trouble at all,
but this calc. was done with dutch gas prices and insurance, they are
relative high to the us ones i assume....
ps.
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 01:42:16 +0100
To: "Moped Mailinglist"
Subject: Fw: Moped Joke
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Peter Staal
Onderwerp: Re: Moped Joke
> >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>Van: daugava@nothnbut.net
>Onderwerp: Re: Moped Joke
> > >>*************************************************
>>Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 16:42:43 -0500
>>To: chrislo@cfw.com
>>From: chrislo@cfw.com
>>Subject: Re: Moped Joke
>> >> >>daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
>>> >>> *************************************************
>>> Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 15:30:20 EST
>>> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
>>> From: BigA3755@aol.com
>>> Subject: Re: Moped Joke
>>> >>> i agree with you..i am a female
>> >>hey some of us dont care what our buddies think
>> >> >>Subject: Re: Moped Joke
> >Q: What do fat men and mopeds have in common?
>A: They are both fun to ride till your friends find out!
> >:-)
> >
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 13:15:48 -0800
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: proof@idt.net
Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 20:48:09 -0800 (PST)
> To: Moped Mailing List
> Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > On Tue, 23 Dec 1997 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > > > > What I am trying to determine here is whether the moped is in fact a
> > false economy. Can someone please tell me how many miles or kms i can
> > expect out of my moped? I have asked many people and no one will give me
> > a straight answer. To say that i might hit a car tomorrow and total the
> > moped is an irrelevant comment. I am interested in generalities here.
> > No manufacturer of any transportation that I know of will quote a number
> of miles that engine should last. The closest thing that I've seen are
> figures that quote mean time to overhaul. For stationary engines, I've
> seen 1500 hours mean time between overhaul quoted. For a car engine that
> equals about 90000 miles at 60 miles an hour. The FAA requires periodic
> teardowns of aircraft piston engines at 1000 hours (?) I think.
> Two strokes that are used in scooters and motorcycles are fairly high
> maintenance. THey coke up because of the 2 stroke oil, they need freqeunt
> tune ups, they often suffer from neglect, they are sensitive to jetting
> and can be seizure prone if the jetting is off or if air seals leak(from
> age). If used at high rpm, the rings wear quickly. The benefits of the 2
> stroke are that they are cheap, make good horsepower for the size of the
> engine, they are simple and easy to maintain, rebuilds are cheap. They
> actually tend to get poor fuel efficiency but because the engine
> and bike are so small, fuel costs are pretty low.
> It's impossible to predict the life of the engine. Even if you
> can find a manufacturers quoted mean time between overhaul, your engine
> might fall significantly above or below the mean. Production tolerances
> prevent the engines from being exactly the same and the manufacturer has
> little control over the end use. The only thing you can do is to take care
> of your engine so that it lasts as long as possible.
> > -Dave
Ok, i see. you say that rebuild of a 50 cc engine is cheap - around how
cheap. I know you cant give me an exact figure or anything. What i was
hoping to find were people who had actually run their peds for many tens
of thousands of miles.
The other reason that i was surprised that a moped engine needed to be
rebuilt after 13000 miles is that I have observed lawn mower and chain
saw engines lasting forever. I believe that these are the same type of
engines as on mopeds, no? And a lawn mower engine hardly gets any cooling
i would think. My brother has a lawn mower from the early 70s (sears).
It's still chugging.
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 13:20:01 -0800
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: proof@idt.net
Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:08:02 -0500
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: paltron@interlog.com
> Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > > > *************************************************
> > Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 01:26:46 +0100
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> > Van: daugava@nothnbut.net
> > Onderwerp: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > > > *************************************************
> > Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 04:29:13 -0800
> > To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> > From: proof@idt.net
> > Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > > > > Also - do scooters use a different engine design? Do they last longer?
> > Just
> > > what is the difference between a scooter and a moped anyway - i dont get
> > why
> > > people make
> > > such a big distinction - even people who know nothing at all about
> > scooters
> > > or mopeds.
> > > > > > *you really didn't get it é
> > > > > > Bye, Peter Staal
> > > > ok i don't get what you mean by your comment - "you really dont get it
> > e?"
> > > > What I am trying to determine here is whether the moped is in fact a
> > false economy. Can someone please tell me how many miles or kms i can
> > expect out of my moped? I have asked many people and no one will give me
> > a straight answer. To say that i might hit a car tomorrow and total the
> > moped is an irrelevant comment. I am interested in generalities here.
> > > > What answer do you want ?
> > it seen you want THE answer that says yes or no to some thing you have in
> > mind,
> > and a real answer ain't out there :) .
> > in the tomos manual (the service bible) also on one of my pages it says
> > about a partial checkup at 500, 1500, 3000, 6000, 9000 (a large one), 12000,
> > 15000,18000 total renovation almost, after renovation cycle starts again,
> > how is that for an answer, no personal influence in it at all.
> > I think you want some views to relativate you hunger for facts :
> > > > do they cost money YES
> > do they polute YES
> > can they be stolen YES
> > can you crash badly YES
> > can you drive safe home every day YES
> > can you beat the local speed limit YES
> > does it take time for care YES
> > does it safe time every second you sit on it YES
> > does it safe money compared to a car YES
> > does it save money compared to public transport YES
> > does it prevent you from long walking YES (when running ;( )
> > any more suggestions out there ?
> > > > Bye, Peter Staal
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Email: staal@concepts.nl
> > Home: http://home.concepts.nl/~staal
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> You can reasonably expect fuel economy between 150-200 miles to the
> gallon on any 49cc engine. Racing-type starts, revving the engine always
> to the max costs excessive gasoline consumption just like with cars.
> And my good friend Peter left out an important questio in his summary:
> are they fun to ride? YES
> Merry Christmas or whatever you celebrate to all
> > PA
yes and the other thing he left out was:
do they get you lots of attention on the streets in the moped poor US?
yes
and
are they fun to ride through traffic jams filled with $50,000 cars? yes
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 13:23:25 -0800
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: proof@idt.net
Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:26:59 EST
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: AaronM428@aol.com
> Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > In a message dated 97-12-24 14:59:06 EST, you write:
> > << OK i'm sorry for being a pain in the ass about this cost thing. I am
> merely pursuing this out of my own obsession with cost compared with
> other modes of transport the way other people on here talk about the
> minutia of tuning. I am a new moped owner and was trying to get a general
> picture of what other people's long term cost have been. In your other
> message to me about costs you concluded that you spent between 11 cents
> and 30 something cents per mile on your 2 mopeds. Sorry, that is NOT
> cheaper than mass transit. It is cheaper than a car up to about 30 cents.
> Thank you for your patience. >> > > The only money that I have put into my Targa LX was for gas (maybe $5,
> probably less) oil ($10) and tranny fluid ($5) in 500+ miles. And I haven't
> used all the oil, my oil costs will go down because I stopped using synthetic.
> If I assume 6,000 miles total, then it costs about 23.5 cents per mile. (3.5
> cents if you don't count initial cost)
Ok yes my experience on my targa has been the same. The only other thing
i had was one burned out turn signal bulb. Ok i hope you get alot more
than 6000 miles cuz 23.5 cents per mile is not exactly cheap transport.
Curious: Why did you stop using synthetic oil?
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 09:56:27 -0800
To: scone@sk.sympatico.ca
From: scone@sk.sympatico.ca
Subject: Motobecane
I am looking for a set of standard rings for what I think is a
1970 49cc Type 4 .Can anyone help?
Scott Cone
scone@sk.sympatico.ca
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 12:58:31 -0600 (CST)
To: cyclepro@evansville.net
From: cyclepro@evansville.net
Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
On Wed, 24 Dec, daugava@nothnbut.net wrote...
>*************************************************
>Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 20:27:50 -0800 (PST)
>To: Moped Mailing List
>Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
> > >> >> << A 2 cycle needs to opperate at high RPM before it makes much torque
>> & horsepower. More rpm increases ware & heat. That is just the nature of
>> the beast. >> >> >> I have always know this, but why, exactly, is it so? What makes a 2-stroke a
>> high RPM engine?
> >There is nothing in a 2 stroke that makes it a "high rpm engine". Marine
>diesels operate at under 100 rpm- of course they are huge.
THE LARGE 2 CYCLE MARINE DIESELS ENGINES YOU ARE REFERING TO ARE DESIGNED
FOR MARINE APPLICATIONS THAT REQUIRE DRIVESHAFT SPEEDS BE SLOW TO REDUCE
PROP SLIPAGE. THIS CLASS OF 2 CYCLE HAS A VERY POOR DISPLACEMENT TO HP
RATIO.
It's the carb
>sizing, port area and configuration and pipe dimensions that determine the
>rpm and power characteristics of the engine.
TRUE.......THE FACTORS YOU ARE INCREACE THE EFFICENCY OF THE ENGINE BY
ALLOWING BETTER CYLINDER FILL AND INCREASING VOLUMETRIC EFFICENCY. BUT
PRODUCTION 2 cycle ENGINES USED ON THE TYPICAL 50CC 2hp MOPED CURRENTLY
MARKETED IN THE USA HAVE A NARROW POWER & TORQUE RANGE THAT OCCURES IN THE
OUTER HALF OF THE RPM RANGE.
IN DESIGNING AN ENGINE TO PRODUCE LOW END TORQUE THE BORE TO STROKE RATIO
IS THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR. THE NEXT FACTOR IS GETTING THE PORTS OPEN
EARLY AND CLOSING THEM LATE IN THE CYCLE TO ENHANCE CYLINDER FILL.
>Enduro engines are tuned for
>wide power bands and smooth torque delivery- of course, the high rpm
>power suffers. Actually, most moped 50cc engines make peak power at around
>6000-8000 rpm, low for such a small engine. Racing 50cc engines make peak
>power at 18000-20000 rpm. Most moped engines are legally restricted in
>power output to 2.5-3.5 HP, depending on local laws.
LAWS ARE A BIG FACTOR OF WHY OUR 2 cycles DON'T DO BETTER. THE 50cc 2hp
LIMITS TIE THE MANUFACTURES HANDS AND STIMEY ANY QUESTS FOR EFFICENCY.
>My 50cc scooter is
>quoted to make 3hp at 7200 rpm. According to the "Two Stroke Tuner's
>Handbook", an air cooled, 50cc engine with a 3 or 5 port layout should be
>able to make between 5 and 7 HP at 7200 rpm. Potentially twice the stock
>horse power at the same stock rpm. The piston speed at 7200 rpm works out
>to 1/2 of the safe maximum piston speed recommended for a road engine.
>Mopeds really have mildly tuned engines and they should last a long time
>with normal use and maintenance.
> >-Dave
I AM CURIOUS AS TO WHAT YOU FEEL IS A LONG TIME. I HAVE A CUSTOMER THAT
BOUGHT A HONDA ELITE FROM THE LOCAL HONDA DEALER. HE RIDES THE DEVIL OUT OF
IT. 8000 MILES IN 2 YEARS. HE HAS HAD THREE TOP END OVERHAULS AND IS NOW
READY FOR A MAJOR OVERHAUL BECAUSE THE ROD IS KNOCKING AT THE CRANK. THIS
IS PRETTY TYPICAL FOR THESE SMALL LOWER PRICED MACHINES IN THE USA.
...........................REGARDS, GREG
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 13:23:38 -0600 (CST)
To: cyclepro@evansville.net
From: cyclepro@evansville.net
Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
On Wed, 24 Dec, daugava@nothnbut.net wrote...
>*************************************************
>Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 20:48:09 -0800 (PST)
>To: Moped Mailing List
>Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > > > >On Tue, 23 Dec 1997 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> >> >> What I am trying to determine here is whether the moped is in fact a
>> false economy. Can someone please tell me how many miles or kms i can
>> expect out of my moped? I have asked many people and no one will give me
>> a straight answer. To say that i might hit a car tomorrow and total the
>> moped is an irrelevant comment. I am interested in generalities here.
> >No manufacturer of any transportation that I know of will quote a number
>of miles that engine should last. The closest thing that I've seen are
>figures that quote mean time to overhaul. For stationary engines, I've
>seen 1500 hours mean time between overhaul quoted. For a car engine that
>equals about 90000 miles at 60 miles an hour. The FAA requires periodic
>teardowns of aircraft piston engines at 1000 hours (?) I think.
FAA REGULATORY REQUIREMENTS DICTATE ENGINE OVERHAUL TIMES IF YOU ARE
OPERATING COMMERCIALLY. FOR PRIVATE/PERSONAL OPERATIONS IT COMES DOWN TO
WHAT YOU ARE COMFORTABLE WITH. SOME TBO's THAT I AM FAMILIAR WITH ARE:
TBO is short for time between ovehaul.
IN THE PISTON ENGINE CLASS:
Cessna 150 and a small trainer TBO 1700hrs.
Cessna 172 - 145hp Contenital TBO 1600hrs.
Cessna 172 - 150hp Lycoming TBO 1800hrs.
P Barom 325hp Turbo Super Charged TBO 1600hs.
The above engines will usually need a top overhaul somewhere between 700
and 1200hrs.
SMALL JETS & TURBINES
KING AIR - PRATT & WHITTNEY TURBINE 500 to 850 SHP. TBO's are ABOUT
3500hrs.
HOT SECTION INSPECTION ARE NEEDED AT ABOUT 1200 hr. INTERVALS
>Two strokes that are used in scooters and motorcycles are fairly high
>maintenance. THey coke up because of the 2 stroke oil, they need freqeunt
>tune ups, they often suffer from neglect, they are sensitive to jetting
>and can be seizure prone if the jetting is off or if air seals leak(from
>age). If used at high rpm, the rings wear quickly. The benefits of the 2
>stroke are that they are cheap, make good horsepower for the size of the
>engine, they are simple and easy to maintain, rebuilds are cheap. They
>actually tend to get poor fuel efficiency but because the engine
>and bike are so small, fuel costs are pretty low.
> It's impossible to predict the life of the engine. Even if you
>can find a manufacturers quoted mean time between overhaul, your engine
>might fall significantly above or below the mean. Production tolerances
>prevent the engines from being exactly the same and the manufacturer has
>little control over the end use. The only thing you can do is to take care
>of your engine so that it lasts as long as possible.
>-Dave
> AGREED.......GREG DOUGAN
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 14:24:56 -0600 (CST)
To: cyclepro@evansville.net
From: cyclepro@evansville.net
Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
On Wed, 24 Dec, daugava@nothnbut.net wrote...
>*************************************************=0D
>Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 22:12:20 -0800
>To: daugava@nothnbut.net
>From: proof@idt.net
>Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > >daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
>> >> *************************************************
>> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 01:26:46 +0100
>> To:
>> Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
>> >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>> Van: daugava@nothnbut.net
>> Onderwerp: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
>> >> *************************************************
>> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 04:29:13 -0800
>> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
>> From: proof@idt.net
>> Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
>> >> > Also - do scooters use a different engine design? Do they last longer=
>?
>> Just
>> > what is the difference between a scooter and a moped anyway - i dont =
>get
>> why
>> > people make
>> > such a big distinction - even people who know nothing at all about
>> scooters
>> > or mopeds.
>> > >> > *you really didn't get it =E9
>> > >> > Bye, Peter Staal
>> >> ok i don't get what you mean by your comment - "you really dont get it
>> e?"
>> >> What I am trying to determine here is whether the moped is in fact a
>> false economy. Can someone please tell me how many miles or kms i can
>> expect out of my moped? I have asked many people and no one will give =
>me
>> a straight answer. To say that i might hit a car tomorrow and total the
>> moped is an irrelevant comment. I am interested in generalities here.
>> >> What answer do you want ?
>> it seen you want THE answer that says yes or no to some thing you have =
>in
>> mind,
>> and a real answer ain't out there :) .
>> in the tomos manual (the service bible) also on one of my pages it says
>> about a partial checkup at 500, 1500, 3000, 6000, 9000 (a large one), 1=
>2000,
>> 15000,18000 total renovation almost, after renovation cycle starts agai=
>n,
>> how is that for an answer, no personal influence in it at all.
>> I think you want some views to relativate you hunger for facts :
>> >> do they cost money YES
>> do they polute YES
>> can they be stolen YES
>> can you crash badly YES
>> can you drive safe home every day YES
>> can you beat the local speed limit YES
>> does it take time for care YES
>> does it safe time every second you sit on it YES
>> does it safe money compared to a car YES
>> does it save money compared to public transport YES
>> does it prevent you from long walking YES (when running ;( )
>> any more suggestions out there ?
>> >> Bye, Peter Staal
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Email: staal@concepts.nl
>> Home: http://home.concepts.nl/~staal
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >OK i'm sorry for being a pain in the ass about this cost thing. I am
>merely pursuing this out of my own obsession with cost compared with
>other modes of transport the way other people on here talk about the
>minutia of tuning. I am a new moped owner and was trying to get a general=
> >picture of what other people's long term cost have been. In your other
>message to me about costs you concluded that you spent between 11 cents
>and 30 something cents per mile on your 2 mopeds. Sorry, that is NOT
>cheaper than mass transit. It is cheaper than a car up to about 30 cents.=
> >Thank you for your patience.
> > > YOU ARE NOT A PAIN IN THE ASS. THIS IS A VAID RELAVENT QUESTION
Mass transit is intended to be the most economical means available and it
low cost when all the seats are filled. Mass transit is usually subsidised
by other revenue sources so that the total cost of operation isn't charged
to the fare payer. BUT you are dependent on the bus & must sacrafice a
certian amount of personal freedom of mobility.
Mopeds are not an economical or practical solution for anyone having a
substancial transportation requirement. But for providing short haul
personal transportation they are great. A bicycle may also be an option
here.
If you are a "BEAN COUNTER" take the mass transit. Someone else is probably
paying part of the cost. You won't have the risk of a premature failure,
theft, or a crash. MOPEDS are FUN and give you FREEDOM, but if you are
going to dance you got to pay the band.
.......GREG DOUGAN
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 00:47:31 -0700 (MST)
To: Andrei Zaitsev
Subject: Whizzer
>Hi, Jack!
>> I'm a Whizzer builder/restorer and would like to subscribe... please
>> hook me up!
>Ok, I will put you on the list when I get back to work... which
>will probably be next tuesday.
> >You say 'builder' - does it mean you can create entire Whizzer bike
>from parts ?
>Another question - the main place for Whizzer motors used to be
>Nostalgia Cycle - but seems like it's no longer the case.
>Could you share, where do you go for parts ?
> >Andrew
> > >Hi---
Typically I take what can best be described as rusty Whizzer remains
(usually nothing more than an engine attached to an often bent/broken frame
and go from there... but I have built H-series from the short block stage.
Much better ( & naturally cheaper ) to have more to work with. I have built
rare 24" WZ and even-rarer 1948 Columbia models (both H-series) that were
both originally pre-built bikes, as opposed to the more common kit bikes.
I have learned that there just ain't an 'authentic' Whizzer bike in the
sense that they were all destined to be customized by whatever rich kid got
their hands on them. The later models the better too--- the pre-H series
suffered from a poorly designed POT METAL (!) crank that was good for only a
few thousand miles, at best. The earliest engine I've owned was a 1939
D-series, rare yet unusable. Whizzer (Breen-Taylor) skipped their series
nomenclature around a bit, omitting several letters (no 'E' or 'I' for example).
Oops... didn't mean to babble bike history.
What I'm looking for is adapting a newer powerplant to Whizzer repro'd
peripherals (clutch, flywheel)--- I have designed an aluminum 3- litre tank
that fits inside a Schwinn cruiser frame and want to mate the bike up with
an appropriate 4-stroke powerplant. Do you know of any? Kumatsu's goped
won't fly being a 2-stroker and the 9k rpm power range isn't really suitable
for a bike like this. I need 2-3hp @ no more than 4500 rpm and under $220
wholesale.
Any help you can provide is greatly appreciated.
Thanx... Jack
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 01:00:08 -0700 (MST)
To: Andrei Zaitsev
Subject: Whizzer parts
>Hi, Jack!
>> Andrew:
Yikes, forgot to answer the parts question:
Memory Lane (Perrysville, OH) is a good (not cheap) source of Whizzer
peripherals. The best Whizzer rebuilder in the U.S. is a guy named AL BLUM
out of Schaumburg, IL (good friend of Buzz Walneck from WALNECKS CYCLE
TRADER)... he builds 100mph Whizzers... again nothing's cheap. A complete
rebuild on an H/J series runs $600+ Good long blocks average $400-450 and
I get offered 4-5 of these every year here locally. I restore (if that's the
term with a Whiz) 2 bikes yearly--- if you want a good fairly complete
non-running kit bike they cost $1200-1600 on a Schwinn/JC Higgins 50's 26"
men's bike.
I recommend power coating (autheticity be dammed) due to the inevitable
scratches incurred when installing/aligning engine. You'll have about $2,400
in the sucker when you're finished if you buy everything right--- that may
seem spendy but they prove very good investments and are infinitely more
collectible than Vespas or Lambrettas... the only thing that compares value
wise is a Mustang Pony or Special, or maybe (arguably) a Cushman Super
Silver Eagle... unless you get really wierd and do a Marmon Super Twin or
even stranger like Moto-Wheels from the teens & twenties.
My interest now is designing/building a retro-looking modern motorized bike.
I plan on working the bugs out of an initial prototype and then knocking out
10 at a time using Schwinn cruiser bikes. My only hang up is the engines...
and I'm not even trying to get an authentic Whizzer look (which apparently
the new repro Whizzers didn't even accomplish really all that well). Hope to
hear from you!
Jack
Aurora, Colorado
>
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 12:17:05 -0800
To:
Subject: Vintage Motor Bike Club
Hello, just wanted to join your moped mailing list and to tell you what a
nice job you've done with your page and how much I enjoy reading it. Also
if you are the person that writes the Moped Magazine I would appreciate it
if you could complete your list of spark plug applications. Keep up the
good work and if you attend the Vintage Motor Bike Club annual meet I would
enjoy meeting you and talking mopeds and scooters. I live about 40 minutes
from Portland, IN.
Thanks,
Pat Jones
jonesp@netusa1.net
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 22:05:23 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: a.ghosh@utoronto.ca
Subject: rear brake light myth.
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 20:52:15 -0800 (PST)
> To: Moped Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Fixing a Puch
> > > i hope to get my moped werking before skool starts up on jan 5th. you
> > think a 17 yr old fool
> > who knows nuthing about engines can fix a moped??? or are they
> > difficult?
> > its the engine part that i need help in, everything else like brakes,
> > etc and easy.!
> > Well, whether you're a fool or or not remains to be seen but there is no
> easier or cheaper kind of transportation to work on than a moped. If you
> are at all interested in learning some mechanical skills, a moped is
> perfect.
> > -Dave
exactly! Moped ROCK! well i got some books from the library and
i've done 2 things. I've sucsessfully de-siezed the engine, and i
de-coked
everything. I guess i'm gonna try it now with gas! Wish me luck, i
hope
it starts!
eh, i herd that if the rear brake light is out, it won't srt because its
part
of the circuit. Is this true??
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 12:43:51 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: ACassin105@aol.com
Subject: Re: advice
check your air intake in the airbox put your hand over ti to see if it changes
or take the airbox off to much air makes them stall not enough makes them run
like there on choke and not enough air makes them usally start running with
out throttle
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 12:49:02 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: ACassin105@aol.com
Subject: Re: Ohio licencing
ive had my moped license in ohio for about two years they sure do make it a
hassle to get a license though .I pay about 200 dollers a year insurance for
full coverage on my targa lx
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 12:59:18 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: ACassin105@aol.com
Subject: Re: What would be considered "cream of the crop" >TOMOS
Id have to say TOMOS because of there such high ranking in sales and everybody
knows the Tomos differance .THey were the ones who brought mopeds into the new
era from mopeds that couldnt make it up a hill and barly tapped 30 on the
spedo.Now they can blast out of sight and are robbed of horse power by the
american emission laws.But if you modify thell never know.
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 13:02:26 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: ACassin105@aol.com
Subject: Re: hello
im 15 and ride a Targa Lx im almost 16 and when i bought my moped two years
ago i was going to sell it when i was 16 to put in my car fund but now i dont
think ill ever sell it
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 13:43:12 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: ACassin105@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
lots of us pay the out ragious prices cause we love our moped so much
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 13:51:12 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: ACassin105@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tomos 91 manual
Moped40oz has a box full of manuals for all years of golden bullets
thats-----------Moped40oz
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 15:07:24 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: 6828t@bright.net
Subject: Re: Moped Joke
--------------0405721AB2B850244C5EDAE8
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I think that everybody should take it for what it is a ( JOKE) If they can't that
is their problem. The people that are doing all the bitching are hypocrites. I'm
sure that they have told a few ethnic jokes in there time. SO KEEP THE JOKES
COMING!!!!! This is the USA the last time I checked.
Thank You
Bob T.
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 20:03:12 -0600
To:
Subject: moped leak
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD1302.7665FE60
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Help!
I have a 1970 mobylette moped that has a gas leak. Gas enters the =
carburetor and than leaks out. Does anyone know how to fix it. Thanks. =
Nick Mirus
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 10:09:16 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Huvz@aol.com
Subject: Cream of the crop - revisited
A few weeks ago I posted a message asking what were the most desiradle,
durable, best selling mopeds.
I had a reply citing that the Honda 4-stroke mopeds were (to some) best.
I would like to narrow the scope of this question a bit. When I refer to
moped, I mean the kind that have PEDALS. When I looked at the web site on 4
stroke honda mopeds, I found non-padal bearing bikes.
I am learning that in Europe especially, that pedals are not required for a
bike to be considered a MOPED. In the USA, however, their not a moped without
them.
#1 is my assumption correct about pedals vs. no pedals
#2 What would be considered "cream of the crop" in the MOPED WITH PEDALS
category.
Thanks
Scott H.
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 12:00:46 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Huvz@aol.com
Subject: Know about "Italtelai "
This is a 1978 model with a top tank, chrome fenders and exhaust. The motor
has "Franco Motori" on the side.
The tank says "Pacer" on the side of he tank.
Any information on this moped would be helpful.
Thanks
Scott H
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 14:42:25 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: 6828t@bright.net
Subject: Re: " help - motobecane piston"
Hi
This my be a dume idea but can't you replace the cylinder and piston together
if you can't find the right piston for the one you have?
Thank You
Bob T.
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> *************************************************
> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 04:17:29 -0400 (EDT)
> To: <199712201638.KAA23909@mail.valuenet.net> > From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
> Subject: Re: " help - motobecane piston"
> > Try Mickey's mopeds @ tomostomos@aol.com - he's got motobecane parts up
> the you know what.
> > Michael Liu
> > On Sat, 20 Dec 1997 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > > *************************************************
> > Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 21:02:00 EST
> > To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> > From: Wrnch@aol.com
> > Subject: Re: " help - motobecane piston"
> > > > > > I am desperatly looking for an asso werke's piston #2352 it came out of a
> > motobecane with no identification on it, all attempts to look it up by
> > application have frustratingly ended up in the wrong pistons!! Maybe a
> > different cyclinder was installed ??? Any help or thoughts on my predicament
> > would be welcome.
> > > > George @ Middletown Motorcycles
> > WRNCH@aol.com
> > > > 802-235-BIKE (2453) Voice
> > 802-235-9373 Fax
> > > > > >
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 20:55:12 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Huvz@aol.com
Subject: Re: Puch
Jim,
Let me know where you are located, I can help you with parts.
I have a few PUCH parts bikes. I am in Ohio. Parts can be shipped.
As far as the rings go, you should be able to install them. All you have to
do is follow some easy instructions, and be careful, and gentle with the rings
as they go on. The worst thing that can happen is you may break one.
However, if a job shop would bead blast the piston to remove carbon, and
clean the ring grooves, and install the rings for a reasonable price, that
would be ok too. (expect to pay 25-50 dollars ?)
You would do well to find another clunmer like that one for spares.
Good luck. Let me know what used parts you may need.
Scott H
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 14:22:19 -0400 (EDT)
To: <199712232219.QAA06890@mail.valuenet.net> From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject: Re: Manual needed for 78 Puch
Try the following people:
Andover Cycles: andover@aol.com
Steve's Moped: mopedmoped@aol.com
or the moped warehouse in connecticutt
All these three have what you want.
Michael Liu
On Tue, 23 Dec 1997 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> *************************************************
> Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 16:58:31 EST
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: Jtovet@aol.com
> Subject: Manual needed for 78 Puch
> > > Hi, does anyone know where I can scare up a manual for a 1978 Puch ?????
> Thanks
> Jim
> > >
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 23:51:24 -0800
To:
Subject: Re: Cream of the crop - revisited
Seems to vary by state. Ohio requires pedals, but Ky doesn't.
Many people seems to classify a scooter and a moped as one and the same, but
they aren't alike at all.
The Tomos Mopeds are the number one imported moped to the USA. Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: daugava@nothnbut.net
Subject: Cream of the crop - revisited
>*************************************************
>Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 10:09:16 EST
>To: daugava@nothnbut.net
>From: Huvz@aol.com
>Subject: Cream of the crop - revisited
> > > A few weeks ago I posted a message asking what were the most desiradle,
>durable, best selling mopeds.
> I had a reply citing that the Honda 4-stroke mopeds were (to some) best.
> I would like to narrow the scope of this question a bit. When I refer to
>moped, I mean the kind that have PEDALS. When I looked at the web site on 4
>stroke honda mopeds, I found non-padal bearing bikes.
> I am learning that in Europe especially, that pedals are not required for
a
>bike to be considered a MOPED. In the USA, however, their not a moped
without
>them.
> #1 is my assumption correct about pedals vs. no pedals
> #2 What would be considered "cream of the crop" in the MOPED WITH PEDALS
>category.
> Thanks
> Scott H.
> > >
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 23:19:00 -0800 (PST)
To: Moped Mailing List
Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > Ok, i see. you say that rebuild of a 50 cc engine is cheap - around how
> cheap. I know you cant give me an exact figure or anything. What i was
> hoping to find were people who had actually run their peds for many tens
> of thousands of miles.
50 and 80 cc dirt bikes have pistons that cost between $35-80, typically.
Rings are another $20? A gasket set and a bore job is usually all that is
necessary. Often, the ring seal goes away and all you need is a set of
rings and a gasket set. If it's real high miles or you have a bad seizure
then a new piston and a cylinder bore will be necessary. If it's real bad,
you could need a new rod and/or bottom end bearings. Cost? Dirt bikers and
2 stroke road racers get used to tearing down and re-ringing their engines
every couple of racing weekends- it takes them a couple of hours and a few
bucks.
> > The other reason that i was surprised that a moped engine needed to be
> rebuilt after 13000 miles is that I have observed lawn mower and chain
> saw engines lasting forever. I believe that these are the same type of
> engines as on mopeds, no? And a lawn mower engine hardly gets any cooling
> i would think. My brother has a lawn mower from the early 70s (sears).
> It's still chugging.
Those types of engines last for years but see very few hours of use.
If your brother mowed his lawn weekly, and it took him an hour to do it,
he would see 52 hours of use a year. If he bought it in 1970, he would
have 1400 hours on and it. That's not even at the 1500 hours mean time
before overhaul mark. If he's taken care of it, it could easily last a
lot longer. Mean time between overhaul is the AVERAGE time. Half of the
engines need overhaul sooner, half last longer.
Lawn mower and chain saw engines have built in cooling fans and
are usually cooled better than a typical moped set up. Long idle periods
or long periods of slow speed operation are bad for mopeds from a cooling
standpoint.
13000 miles is a lot of miles on your typical moped in the US.
Most peds get used for a while after their owner gets it, then get garaged
after the owner moves up to a car or bike.
-Dave
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 23:28:11 -0800 (PST)
To: Moped Mailing List
Subject: Re: Tomos Targa LX 70cc bore kit experiences
> > I AM CURIOUS AS TO WHAT YOU FEEL IS A LONG TIME. I HAVE A CUSTOMER THAT
> BOUGHT A HONDA ELITE FROM THE LOCAL HONDA DEALER. HE RIDES THE DEVIL OUT OF
> IT. 8000 MILES IN 2 YEARS. HE HAS HAD THREE TOP END OVERHAULS AND IS NOW
> READY FOR A MAJOR OVERHAUL BECAUSE THE ROD IS KNOCKING AT THE CRANK. THIS
> IS PRETTY TYPICAL FOR THESE SMALL LOWER PRICED MACHINES IN THE USA.
> ..........................REGARDS, GREG
Beats me. Top end overhauls are pretty normal for two stroke cycle type
engines. You do say that he "rides the devil" out of it. I've seen that a
lot of these bikes suffer a lot of neglect or abuse from their owners.
How long do you think they ought to last? I'll admit that I haven't worn
my Kasea out- it's treated like a typical US ped, a few hundred miles a
year.
-Dave
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 07:28:15 -0500
To: halmc@talstar.com
From: halmc@talstar.com
Subject: (no subject)
> Sorry, that is NOT
> cheaper than mass transit.
Whether it's cheaper than mass transit depends on whether you assign any
value to your time. Mass transit gourges on your time, whereas the
moped merely nibbles.
Harold
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 21:33:39 -0800
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: proof@idt.net
Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:48:29 EST
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: SUPRDAVE@aol.com
> Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > with my personal experiences, my cost for ownership has been neligable, in my
> opinion. there are no bus routes where i live so i cannot compare that against
> my moped and scooter. really, the only thing i spend money is is gas and oil.
> well, flat tires too; i seem to get them all the time on my scooter, never on
> the moped. sometimes i will buy a new part like turn lenses, or maintenance
> parts like air filter and spark plugs, but i'd say its certainly cheaper than
> my truck. here in north carolina, all you need to do is wear a helmet when on
> your moped. i ride mainly just to enjoy a warm day and explore, or to go
> someplace close by thats just too much trouble driving my truck.
> > david
> > <<
> OK i'm sorry for being a pain in the ass about this cost thing. I am
> merely pursuing this out of my own obsession with cost compared with
> other modes of transport the way other people on here talk about the
> minutia of tuning. I am a new moped owner and was trying to get a general
> picture of what other people's long term cost have been. In your other
> message to me about costs you concluded that you spent between 11 cents
> and 30 something cents per mile on your 2 mopeds. Sorry, that is NOT
> cheaper than mass transit. It is cheaper than a car up to about 30 cents.
> Thank you for your patience. >>
Wow you are in NC? I am in nj and i have to go down there soon for a
wedding. If it weren't the middle of January, I would ride my ped down
and make a nice tour out of it. How is the riding down there? I guess i
will just take the train (my other favorite mode of transport). Hey do
you know anyplace that rents peds in Raleigh?
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 21:42:38 -0800
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: proof@idt.net
Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 01:41:02 +0100
> To:
> Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: daugava@nothnbut.net
> Onderwerp: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > *************************************************
> Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 22:12:20 -0800
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: proof@idt.net
> Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > > > *************************************************
> > Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 01:26:46 +0100
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> > Van: daugava@nothnbut.net
> > Onderwerp: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > > > *************************************************
> > Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 04:29:13 -0800
> > To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> > From: proof@idt.net
> > Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > > > > Also - do scooters use a different engine design? Do they last longer?
> > Just
> > > what is the difference between a scooter and a moped anyway - i dont get
> > why
> > > people make
> > > such a big distinction - even people who know nothing at all about
> > scooters
> > > or mopeds.
> > > > > > *you really didn't get it é
> > > > > > Bye, Peter Staal
> > > > ok i don't get what you mean by your comment - "you really dont get it
> > e?"
> > > > What I am trying to determine here is whether the moped is in fact a
> > false economy. Can someone please tell me how many miles or kms i can
> > expect out of my moped? I have asked many people and no one will give me
> > a straight answer. To say that i might hit a car tomorrow and total the
> > moped is an irrelevant comment. I am interested in generalities here.
> > > > What answer do you want ?
> > it seen you want THE answer that says yes or no to some thing you have in
> > mind,
> > and a real answer ain't out there :) .
> > in the tomos manual (the service bible) also on one of my pages it says
> > about a partial checkup at 500, 1500, 3000, 6000, 9000 (a large one),
> 12000,
> > 15000,18000 total renovation almost, after renovation cycle starts again,
> > how is that for an answer, no personal influence in it at all.
> > I think you want some views to relativate you hunger for facts :
> > > > do they cost money YES
> > do they polute YES
> > can they be stolen YES
> > can you crash badly YES
> > can you drive safe home every day YES
> > can you beat the local speed limit YES
> > does it take time for care YES
> > does it safe time every second you sit on it YES
> > does it safe money compared to a car YES
> > does it save money compared to public transport YES
> > does it prevent you from long walking YES (when running ;( )
> > any more suggestions out there ?
> > > > Bye, Peter Staal
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Email: staal@concepts.nl
> > Home: http://home.concepts.nl/~staal
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > OK i'm sorry for being a pain in the ass about this cost thing. I am
> merely pursuing this out of my own obsession with cost compared with
> other modes of transport the way other people on here talk about the
> minutia of tuning. I am a new moped owner and was trying to get a general
> picture of what other people's long term cost have been. In your other
> message to me about costs you concluded that you spent between 11 cents
> and 30 something cents per mile on your 2 mopeds. Sorry, that is NOT
> cheaper than mass transit. It is cheaper than a car up to about 30 cents.
> Thank you for your patience.
> > No trouble at all,
> but this calc. was done with dutch gas prices and insurance, they are
> relative high to the us ones i assume....
> ps.
Ok yes I am aware of that. I have been to Holland 3 times. I usually stay in Haarlem.
Since I have you here, let me ask you something else. I go to italy alot but sometimes
fly into schiphol or brussels because i can get much cheaper fares to there. Then i use
my eurail pass and take a nice ride down to italy. What i want to do one time is buy a
used ped in Holland, ride down to italy and sell it in italy or maybe even ride it back.
But the whole problem of registration/insurance is daunting to me as a foreigner. How
feasible do you think this would be for a foreigner? Can i do the whole
registration/insurance thing at the dealer. I would bring my international driver
license. What about riding the ped across the borders? I would probably go via germany
since i speak it a little and no french. The point would not be to get to italy cheaper
or anything - it is to take a nice tour of the backroads. What does a new tomos targa
lx go for in holland? u can tell me in guilders.
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:44:20 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: PlasticDr@aol.com
Subject: Solex Parts & Bikes
To All Solex Moped Owners:
New spare parts for repairs and restoration is now available!!!!!!
I have thousands of New Old Stock Solex parts for 2200,3300,3800, 4600, & 5000
models. Everything including Gaskets, Electrical, Lighting,
Engine/mechanical, Sheet metal, Wheels, Seats, Tires, Frames, Even entire NEW
SOLEX BIKES.
I also have Service, Repair and Owners manuals in English.
E-Mail me with you needs and questions.
Mark Lieberman PlasticDr@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 21:57:45 -0800
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: proof@idt.net
Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 14:24:56 -0600 (CST)
> To: cyclepro@evansville.net
> From: cyclepro@evansville.net
> Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > On Wed, 24 Dec, daugava@nothnbut.net wrote...
> >*************************************************=0D
> >Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 22:12:20 -0800
> >To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> >From: proof@idt.net
> >Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> > > > > >daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> >> > >> *************************************************
> >> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 01:26:46 +0100
> >> To:
> >> Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> >> > >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> >> Van: daugava@nothnbut.net
> >> Onderwerp: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> >> > >> *************************************************
> >> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 04:29:13 -0800
> >> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> >> From: proof@idt.net
> >> Subject: Re: 70cc bore kit experiences
> >> > >> > Also - do scooters use a different engine design? Do they last longer=
> >?
> >> Just
> >> > what is the difference between a scooter and a moped anyway - i dont =
> >get
> >> why
> >> > people make
> >> > such a big distinction - even people who know nothing at all about
> >> scooters
> >> > or mopeds.
> >> > > >> > *you really didn't get it =E9
> >> > > >> > Bye, Peter Staal
> >> > >> ok i don't get what you mean by your comment - "you really dont get it
> >> e?"
> >> > >> What I am trying to determine here is whether the moped is in fact a
> >> false economy. Can someone please tell me how many miles or kms i can
> >> expect out of my moped? I have asked many people and no one will give =
> >me
> >> a straight answer. To say that i might hit a car tomorrow and total the
> >> moped is an irrelevant comment. I am interested in generalities here.
> >> > >> What answer do you want ?
> >> it seen you want THE answer that says yes or no to some thing you have =
> >in
> >> mind,
> >> and a real answer ain't out there :) .
> >> in the tomos manual (the service bible) also on one of my pages it says
> >> about a partial checkup at 500, 1500, 3000, 6000, 9000 (a large one), 1=
> >2000,
> >> 15000,18000 total renovation almost, after renovation cycle starts agai=
> >n,
> >> how is that for an answer, no personal influence in it at all.
> >> I think you want some views to relativate you hunger for facts :
> >> > >> do they cost money YES
> >> do they polute YES
> >> can they be stolen YES
> >> can you crash badly YES
> >> can you drive safe home every day YES
> >> can you beat the local speed limit YES
> >> does it take time for care YES
> >> does it safe time every second you sit on it YES
> >> does it safe money compared to a car YES
> >> does it save money compared to public transport YES
> >> does it prevent you from long walking YES (when running ;( )
> >> any more suggestions out there ?
> >> > >> Bye, Peter Staal
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Email: staal@concepts.nl
> >> Home: http://home.concepts.nl/~staal
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > >OK i'm sorry for being a pain in the ass about this cost thing. I am
> >merely pursuing this out of my own obsession with cost compared with
> >other modes of transport the way other people on here talk about the
> >minutia of tuning. I am a new moped owner and was trying to get a general=
> > > >picture of what other people's long term cost have been. In your other
> >message to me about costs you concluded that you spent between 11 cents
> >and 30 something cents per mile on your 2 mopeds. Sorry, that is NOT
> >cheaper than mass transit. It is cheaper than a car up to about 30 cents.=
> > > >Thank you for your patience.
> > > > > > > YOU ARE NOT A PAIN IN THE ASS. THIS IS A VAID RELAVENT QUESTION
> Mass transit is intended to be the most economical means available and it
> low cost when all the seats are filled. Mass transit is usually subsidised
> by other revenue sources so that the total cost of operation isn't charged
> to the fare payer. BUT you are dependent on the bus & must sacrafice a
> certian amount of personal freedom of mobility.
> > Mopeds are not an economical or practical solution for anyone having a
> substancial transportation requirement. But for providing short haul
> personal transportation they are great. A bicycle may also be an option
> here.
> > If you are a "BEAN COUNTER" take the mass transit. Someone else is probably
> paying part of the cost. You won't have the risk of a premature failure,
> theft, or a crash. MOPEDS are FUN and give you FREEDOM, but if you are
> going to dance you got to pay the band.
> > ......GREG DOUGAN
Ok this is the typical double standard applied to mass transit. Yes, it is subsidized.
But so is the moped and of course the most subsidized of all is the car. Aviation is
heavily subsidized. Probably the most neglected modes are rail - both freight and
passenger.
Ok no I am not a bean counter - i'm just commited to living a very cheap life style so
that I can spend the least possible time engaged in wage slavery. I live in an old silk
factory for probably 1/5 the rent of what anyone else i know pays. The beauty of the
moped and its appeal to me is in its smallness and apparent efficiency. I am just
dismayed to find that my image of them is not exactly true.
Ok, is the problem here the fact that it's only a 50 cc engine? Would say an 80 cc
engine have a much better long term cost profile? How about a 4 stroke engine?
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 22:03:05 -0800
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: proof@idt.net
Subject: Re: hello
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 13:02:26 EST
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: ACassin105@aol.com
> Subject: Re: hello
> > im 15 and ride a Targa Lx im almost 16 and when i bought my moped two years
> ago i was going to sell it when i was 16 to put in my car fund but now i dont
> think ill ever sell it
NO, dont get a car - and keep your ped. Cars are the route to financial slavery. Drive
to work/Work to drive. The day is soon coming when the ped and the scooter will once
again be THE coolest things to have - like Italy in the 50's or something.
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 22:13:51 -0800
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: proof@idt.net
Subject: 70cc all over again
OK, in my original message asking about peoples' experiences with the Tomos targa lx 70
cc kit I included way too many comments/questions and the whole thing got sidetracked.
So I want to ask again - for anyone out there who has had the 70 cc or the 60 cc kit put
in:
Did you get a dramatic increase in acceleration from a dead stop?
Did you get better hill climbing power?
What is your top speed now?
Did your fuel economy seem to go down alot?
and for anyone who installed the kit themselves:
How difficult was it? (i am not too experienced mechanically)
any special tools required?
would you do it yourself again or just let a shop do it?
were the instructions clear?
Thanks.
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 10:45:13 -0500
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: paltron@interlog.com
Subject: Re: What would be considered "cream of the crop" >TOMOS
daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 12:59:18 EST
> To: daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: ACassin105@aol.com
> Subject: Re: What would be considered "cream of the crop" >TOMOS
> > Id have to say TOMOS because of there such high ranking in sales and everybody
> knows the Tomos differance .THey were the ones who brought mopeds into the new
> era from mopeds that couldnt make it up a hill and barly tapped 30 on the
> spedo.Now they can blast out of sight and are robbed of horse power by the
> american emission laws.But if you modify thell never know.
Sorry, but I have to disagree. My main beef against Tomos is the 2-speed
tranny they use which has failed pretty miserably on all other makes,
Jawa, Puch, etc. Not that it doesn't work (although in Jawa's case it
often didn't) but it doesn't shift down when you need more torque and
fast (such as climbing a hill or accelerating to pass). The
variator-type belt-driven autoamtics are more sensitive, more reliable
and the adjustment is instantaneous. This system is used now on most
modern scooters as well, all the way up to 200cc. So my vote goes to
(we're taling classics) Piaggio Si, Peugeot 103 and Mobylette 50V. The
Si is by far the most comfortable moped I've ever ridden; Peugeot is the
fastest (I have a 1971 original now and it does close to 60 kmh without
any modifications that's 45mph) and the Moby is the easiest to start and
ride as a bicycle.
Happy New Year everyone.
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 10:49:10 EST
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Gokartridr@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tomos 91 manual
What is Moped40oz? i would really like a manual for mine but i dont know what
it is
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 23:59:34 -0800
To: daugava@nothnbut.net
From: proof@idt.net
Subject: Kinetic Peds
I recently saw the Kinetic mopeds at a dealer here in nj. I know very
little about them and I know very little about engines. However, I was
very impressed with the overall design of the body. It has very generous
proportions and looks like it would be a very comfortable ped to ride. I
love my Targa LX but i'm just a bit scrunched up on it - it's just a
little too small for me. The kinetic also looked like it was solidly
built. The price was an incredible 700 dollars or something - i dont
remember exactly now.
Does anyone know how good these peds are? Anybody have one? The dealer
told me the acceleration was not as good as a tomos. Anyone know if there
is like one of these 70cc kits or some other modification for the
kinetic? Hell, at $700 they are practically disposable. Not that i
endorse the throw-away culture, but that's less than half what people pay
for car insurance around here. If you got 1 year service out of it, you'd
still be ahead of the game.
